Showing Up with Compassionate, Vulnerable Leadership | Ep 003

Get ready to embark on an inspiring journey with Ed Doherty, a self-proclaimed "asshole chef" to a compassionate leader who champions connection over dominance. Ed opens up about his struggles with alcoholism and his path to recovery, revealing the valuable lessons he learned about humility, self-awareness, and acceptance from an unlikely mentor.

In this compelling podcast episode, Ed takes us back to his beginnings in the restaurant industry, sharing stories of his early career working with mentors like, White Dog Cafe's, Kathy Reesey. You'll hear how Julia Child's "The Art of French Cooking" sparked his culinary creativity, igniting his passion for the craft. Ed also discusses his transition into leadership, offering insights into his unique approach to building engaged and successful teams. He highlights the importance of authenticity, vulnerability and a clear vision to foster meaningful relationships and a high-performing work environment. You'll hear about his partnership with Nick Bayer, CEO of Saxby's in Philadelphia.

Finally, Ed shares how he merges his fascination with the universe and his passion for hospitality, demonstrating his commitment to creating an ecosystem of success. Get ready to be inspired by Ed's story of transformation, growth, and the power of human connection.

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The Gurus and Game Changers Podcast  focuses on individuals with unique insights and solutions based on their life experiences. 
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Inspirational journeys abound when you listen to some of our guests as they describe their personal transformation with unconventional wisdom with real-life stories. Their
empowering narratives and life-changing experiences showcase triumph over adversity, resilience and perseverance.

At Gurus and Game Changers we thrive on authentic storytelling and non-traditional paths to success described with empowering voices. These motivational insights
laden with turning points, lessons learned and a testament to inner growth will lead to your own journey to self-discovery.

These inspirational role models or 'Wild Ducks' as they've been described always come with a positive mindset in describing transformative experiences and evolving perspectives.


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Transcript

0:00:10 - Stacey

Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, gurus and Game Changers. We are so excited today because on the show we have one of my personal Gurus, ed Doherty. He's the founder of One Degree Coaching, but he has a long career even though he's so young. He started out in the restaurant business, right Capital Grill, union Trust Steakhouse, and then you went director's ops of Saxby's And now you're the founder of One Degree Coaching. So want to tell me a little bit about yourself and about One Degree Coaching, and then I'm going to reel it back to the family life. 

You got it. 

0:00:50 - Ed

So One Degree Coaching was born out of hospitality, but it works everywhere. It's really about leadership and connecting people in a one degree relationship, And it was a journey I learned in the tough streets of restaurant business So I started. I was a chef for 20 some years and chefs are lovely people And they-. 

0:01:15 - Stacey

Are you being sarcastic? 

0:01:15 - Ed

Yes, well, when I started out in the 1970s that's how young I am it was a very different dynamic And the chef chief the whole structure of the restaurant chef world comes from a scoffier, and a scoffier was a military guy. So he created a military structure in the kitchen And it was wonderful because it added order and sanitation and those kinds of things. But it also created the. Can I use the A word? 

0:01:46 - Stacey

Sure, yeah, okay. 

0:01:48 - Ed

Created a bunch of assholes. 

0:01:50 - Stacey

So I consider myself a reformed asshole, right. 

0:01:53 - Ed

And so the journey along the way. I just wanted to build happy, high performing teams. That was my goal. And I just happened to be a chef. I didn't know that until later, But I realized my behavior did not sync up to my why and what I wanted to accomplish. 

0:02:10 - Stacey

Well, what's an example of that kind of behavior? So, was it the chef? Yes, chef, like that kind of like I'm the boss, it's dominance Okay. 

0:02:18 - Ed

It's just pure dominance. shut up, i'm the only voice here. 

0:02:24 - Mark

I'm the king. 

0:02:24 - Ed

Yeah, it's a fiefdom Right And it's fun for a while, but it doesn't work with human beings over the long term. So I wanted to build these long term relationships. People would come and go. I've had some notorieties as chef in the 80s and the early 90s, so people would hang out with me long enough to get the resume Right, but they really didn't like me. So I looked in the mirror one day and I said you know you're an asshole dude And you know if you really want to accomplish your overarching goal, you need to change the way you navigate the planet. So I started studying human nature. 

0:03:02 - Stacey

But what was that inciting moment, like what? so? what made you look at the mirror and say dude, you're an asshole. 

0:03:09 - Ed

Two things. One I was. I usually don't like to talk about this, but I was an alcoholic. So I had a a come to the universe conversation with myself. I quit drinking and stopped, stopped a lot of stuff and just started this journey of self discovery. And yeah, so during this getting sober, you know, i was in the program, as they say, the 12 step program, and I it was this orderly way of digging yourself out of darkness. And so the program, the 12 step program. I was like, wow, this could probably be applied to anything. 

And I started to think about how, not only I could evolve, but how I could evolve the workplace that I was in, which was you know pretty rough. 

0:04:00 - Stacey

So, like for those people like there's listeners out there who have been in that same exact situation, or maybe they're even there now How do you take that first step, like, do you just stay yourself and be like okay, i'm going to do this, do you get help? Do you have your own guru, your own person who kind of guides you along that way? Or like, how can we help people who need that? 

0:04:24 - Ed

Well, it really is. Unfortunately, statistically it's it's not good. But you know, as far as the sobriety thing is concerned, i am very lucky to have quit and never relapse or anything like that. And as far as the sobriety, what I think is that step is that you fear loss. It's not like I am going to change. I'm going to be a better man. You know it is more. I am going to lose my life. I'm going to lose my. I already lost one wife. I had a girlfriend. She was going to leave me. Things weren't good. I didn't ever have a problem at work because I didn't drink at work, but it was fear of loss So I did it selfishly. And then you know, in the program you have somebody called a sponsor and they're your guru. 

And they take you through the steps. 

0:05:16 - Stacey

And that person was probably pretty important to you, Yeah yeah, he was. 

0:05:21 - Ed

You know, the funny thing is, if I saw him on the street, i probably would walk the other way. 

0:05:28 - Stacey

That's the program, because right, you're supposed to be anonymous. 

0:05:31 - Ed

Yeah, right, yeah, but no, i mean, he's not the kind of person I would hang out with Interesting because I was a snob, right? 

0:05:37 - Stacey

So as a chef, You mean before you went into the program you would? Yeah, i was an egobaniac with an inferiority complex. 

0:05:44 - Ed

So I Tommy, tommy G he. Not only was he a stroke victim and he was much older than me, but it made me realize that the way people look and where they come from is not what's happening here, right. So he taught me a lot and he tricked me into getting better. How? 

0:06:05 - Mark

did he say That's amazing. 

0:06:06 - Stacey

Why did he? 

0:06:07 - Mark

say he tricked you into it. 

0:06:09 - Ed

Oh, he would call me up and say, hey, i really got to get to a meeting and I didn't want to go to one. You know you go to these meetings to stay sober And I'd be like Tommy, i'm busy, i got stuff going, he goes. Oh, if you don't pick me up, i might drink. And I was like, oh my God, it's terrible. And I'd go and pick him up. He was sober for 30 years. 

And he would get my ass to the meeting. And then I started talking to people. I was like boy, he's really, he's like he does that to everybody. 

0:06:40 - Mark

And so you know he really you know, him and several other people. 

0:06:43 - Stacey

Thank you, Tommy. 

0:06:44 - Mark

Intervened. 

0:06:45 - Stacey

Thank you for helping me find Ed in my life, yeah. 

0:06:48 - Ed

I've had several interventions in my life where people kind of saw me and said this kid's better than that, Wow. 

0:06:55 - Stacey

And kind of pulled me out, so that happened when you were young as well. 

0:06:59 - Ed

Yeah, yeah, i had a pretty. My childhood was a little. It wasn't a lot of safety and belonging in my childhood So I had I had an older brother who was adopted and he wasn't well and he was violent And so I was his object. 

0:07:17 - Stacey

Punching bag Exactly. 

0:07:19 - Ed

And my mom and dad. They had me late. They, you know they were the the generation that they just wanted to have fun. And so by the time I came along, they were having fun And I kind of. You know I didn't have a lot of safety and belonging at home, so you know I learned how to create safety and belonging for myself, like outside of the house Right. Right, and you know my journey through high school. Like I flunked out high school, wow. 

I was involved with. You know all the things that kids in the 70s were involved. Sure Yeah yeah, i spent my senior year summer and everybody else having fun in summer school just to get out, and so I was a lost soul And my father got me into this private two year school in Dover, delaware, which was for highly motivated underachievers. But I was not highly motivated And I wasn't underachiever, and you know, it had hair down in my waist and I was just Ah, i want pictures. Yeah, I could show you Yeah. 

But it was. It was just that time And it was really dark in this. This guy, this professor, i would sleep in the back of the room And one day he grabbed me and he said I want to show you something. Now it's 1974. So there was a lot of apathy back then, like it was post the war, was just winding down to Vietnam War, and you know, there was barely a high school football team when I was in high school, like nobody would do that. It was not cool, right. So things happened like programs suffered. So at this school, lewis Wells, who was a professor there, they called him Uncle Louis. Little did I know that he picked somebody out every year to like save Oh my gosh. 

And he marched me across the hall and it was this dingy little theater, little small you know theater, and it was dirty and it was dusty and it was in disrepair. And he said what do you think of this? I said I think this place needs help. And I said, yeah, it needs somebody to love. And so do you. 

0:09:19 - Stacey

Oh my God, oh my gosh, i'm going to get emotional, yeah. 

0:09:22 - Ed

So little did he know, or maybe he did. I was in theater, in I played. I was. You remember the Valley Forge Music Fair? Yeah, of course. 

Well, I lived across the street from the Canada County Music Fair. So in the summer I was, i worked at Summerstock Theater with, like you know, real famous people, you know from New York and and Hollywood, and it was that what's what Hollywood people and Broadway people did during the summer back in those days, and they'd be in these little theaters. So he I was already a theater background He'd walk me in here and he said this place needs you, you need it. 

0:09:56 - Stacey

How do you think he knew? I don't know. 

0:09:58 - Ed

It's one of those weird things. So I turn around, he's gone And I'm walking around What I'm walking around. 

0:10:04 - Stacey

Was he real Yeah? 

0:10:06 - Ed

So I walked around this place and it was. it hadn't been a show there in years And, like the apathy of the 60s, just kind of killed. let's do Broadway plays It. just No one wanted to do anything. 

0:10:17 - Stacey

No one wanted to do that. Yeah, they just want to smoke pot and chill and Yeah, yeah, and have sex and protest And protest. 

0:10:22 - Ed

Yeah, free love Sounds fun, so I spent weeks cleaning up this place, throwing out the old sets, you know, just changing the lighting, like I knew how to do all that stuff. And then, a few months later, we put on our first show. 

0:10:37 - Stacey

So what? knowing what you know now like what do you think that lesson was? Like what? what did he instill in you right then? Belonging OK. 

0:10:45 - Ed

A sense of purpose. I didn't have any purpose. I was. I was lost. I really was. I was, and funny thing is, a year later I was a student government president. I cut all my hair off. I was the. I was in Phi Theta Kappa, which is the Phi Beta Kappa of two year schools, and yeah, it was crazy. 

0:11:09 - Mark

How much of that experience do you carry with you when you're working with teams? 

0:11:14 - Ed

It's my entire, why it's what I I, i want. I was a lost soul who found purpose And and I knew that you know people always go oh no, don't say that But I knew I was average. The only thing I really had was I was kind of born with this optimistic outlook. That I'd really got dark at that time in Louis Wells save me But I was born with optimism And that that has always been a fascinating for me. That you know, even though I was like, i knew I was like average IQ and all that stuff, i just had this more a bright outlook. My father always told me I had my head in my clouds my head in the clouds and all that stuff. 

that I was, you know, easily, you know I was just naive, But that naivete and optimism is the thing that really became what I am trying to help other people. 

0:12:18 - Stacey

Amen, that was your fuel, amen. Well, how did you get into? 

0:12:22 - Ed

cooking. Well, i was. I. I transferred to the University of Delaware from Wesley and then I got into my mother was a teacher, So I didn't know what to do And I was like I'll be a teacher. Meanwhile it always worked in restaurants And when the summer stock theater was down, i worked in restaurants and you know I kind of stunk at it. What I was a dishwasher and I was. You know, i was okay And I was a line cook and I was really bad And but it was always fun because it was like pirate ships. You know, like you ever worked in a restaurant that you're literally, especially in the 70s and 80s, it was a pirate ship, you know, with just just crazy You know what do you mean? 

0:13:01 - Stacey

It was a pirate ship. 

0:13:02 - Ed

You mean like just the bat body, People drinking and smoking and doing lines and just and it was work And everybody's having fun and you'd work 12 hours and you'd sweat and curse and bond. Yeah, it was a pirate ship And it was a head pirate and that was the chef. And I was like I like that, That's kind of cool. So when I was graduating I realized I didn't want to be a third grade teacher And I wanted to. I think I think I want to do this. So one day I was working at the Blungo club, which was the university of Delaware's faculty alumni club, And it was this chef there named Bill, And Bill was a drunk And Bill would come in and he would, he would start drinking and he'd pass out in a wrath scalar in the basement. And so I was like, wow, So I got my first offer to be a teacher in the Wilmington school district for like 13,000 a year. 

This is 1978, nine. And so I walked up to Bill one day and he was like he was decorating a cake and he was like this is gross, but he was like flop sweating on it Because he was so hungover and he was like trying to fight. I'm like oh my God. So I said hey. 

Bill it's a question for you And I've asked you a personal question What do you make a year? And he was like I make 30,000 a year. And I was like for drinking all day, i can do that Third grade or 30,000. Yeah, it was like it was that. So I made that's how I made my career decision. And then I found this little place called Goodfellows in Newark, delaware, and this woman named excuse me- this woman named Kathy Reesey turned out. she was like an up and coming chef, But I just wandered in there. 

0:14:41 - Stacey

I was going to say she sounds familiar, kathy Reesey. 

0:14:43 - Ed

Yeah, she was the first woman on the cover of Food and Wine magazine when they did the talk to. Yeah. So here I was. She did all the cooking and I would put parsley on the plate, make the rolls, and I thought I was really cool. And here comes George Pariet. He's hanging out there. Pierre Franet people won't remember him maybe, but he was the sixth Dominican or May for New York Times. Craig Cleborn, who was the New York Times food critic for years back in the 70s And the 80s. these guys were like the top, top guys back then And they were showing up there And I just happened to be there. 

0:15:18 - Stacey

Why were they showing up Just? 

0:15:19 - Ed

because of her. She was an en fontillier to Reba. She was this amazing young upstart, young woman chef And she got tons of attention And I was there along for the ride. 

0:15:33 - Stacey

Wow, did she take you under her wing, or how did she Totally? 

0:15:36 - Ed

Yeah, but I was delusional. I thought I was actually her. So it's all part of being a narcissist, by the way, or confident. 

0:15:44 - Mark

Yeah, yeah, more delusion than anything else. You're hard on yourself. 

0:15:48 - Stacey

No, I'm just honest. 

0:15:50 - Ed

So I decided to go off on my own. I went to Philadelphia and make my name And I went to Philadelphia And I applied to this place called La Torras in West Philadelphia And at the time it was one of a handful of really good restaurants. In 1980 in Philadelphia There was Frog La Torras, it was LeBac, but it was over and where Vetri is now It was a very small restaurant community And I went in there and applied And I interviewed this woman interviewed me by the name of Judy Wicks, white Dog Cafe, and she was the manager at the time And I went in there and I was like oh yeah, i can do this and do that. I was putting parsley on a plate. I had no clue. 

0:16:32 - Mark

Oh my gosh. 

0:16:33 - Ed

I went into this kitchen and I had no idea what I was doing. I realized in one moment what did I do. I don't Any parsley I could put on a plate. 

0:16:43 - Stacey

No, come on, You knew more than that. Oh, i did not, seriously, i knew some. 

0:16:46 - Ed

I was really not good. 

0:16:48 - Stacey

So what'd you do? 

0:16:50 - Ed

Well, because it was 1980 and you can get away with that crap. I had a copy of Julia Child's The Art of French Cooking, like the movie Julia, yeah yeah. 

Julia and Julia. Well, I put it in my locker and every time the chef would go go make some holidays, I'd be like I wonder what that is, I swear to God. I would go downstairs and I'd go, and I'd go upstairs and I'd like he was like no, no, not like that, What are you doing? Oh, I'm sorry, This is what we did at the last place. 

0:17:16 - Stacey

And I just lied, me and my locker. Wow, you faked it till you made it. 

0:17:20 - Ed

Yeah, And two and a half years later I was the executive chef, i'm not kidding. 

0:17:25 - Stacey

So you went in as a line chef, or how did you Line? 

0:17:27 - Ed

cook, Line cook. I mean, it was this optimistic energy that I had. There was a guys coming in from culinary institute. There were people there that had much more talent to mean experience, but I just kept raising going to these leadership positions because of my attitude, basically. 

0:17:45 - Stacey

So you weren't an asshole then? 

0:17:47 - Ed

Well, I was. I was told by several people working with me that I was a good guy, but maybe there's outside of work, when I was drinking. But for the most part, no, I was not. I just modeled what I had seen. And then Judy, who was amazing Judy Wicks is incredible, One of my great mentors. She taught me culture. She taught me what actually culture was. She sent me to Paris. This is the kind of stuff they would do back then, Bulkspence paid. I went to Paris and studied at Laverin. 

So I really experienced some wonderful assholes there, like these real Michelin star chefs, you know that worked in this place, came back to Lutros And so So as an executive chef there did you. 

0:18:34 - Stacey

Were you that person Like? were you that militant? 

0:18:37 - Ed

leader. 

0:18:39 - Stacey

And then so where'd you go from there? 

0:18:41 - Ed

From there. Judy was Lutros was like the place, like the people that came out of Lutros, the talent that came out of there. Was one of those nests opened up like the next generation of restaurants in Philadelphia, and so she was fired. The owner decided that the place was so amazing, somebody put it into his head, it could be franchised or it could make a lot of them. So they got rid of her And that's when I discovered the power of culture. Because the place was, everybody was just. It was the happiest place to work, everybody was doing amazing work, it was just heaven. And within weeks after she was sent away, everything started to teeter and fall apart. 

The leadership wasn't there anymore. The cultural leader, the chief culture officer, had left the building And then the spirit of the organization crashed And she went down the street, licked her wounds, opened up a little muffin shop, sold orange Gina and made muffins in her upstairs, just doors down from Lutros where she lived in this brownstone And that became the White Dog Cafe. And she said and I need you. And I was like I got this cake But I loved her And I went down there and we put some gravel out back. We got a barbecue. 

0:19:59 - Stacey

Wait, you started the White Dog Cafe with her. I did. 

0:20:01 - Ed

I didn't know that about you. Yeah, yeah, wow. So I gravel stones, chairs, no ceiling roof. You couldn't do that nowadays And then we just cooked out back and people came and if it rained, dinner was over. It was wacky times And I couldn't stay because I just had my daughter and then I went and worked at another restaurant, but I got it started for her. 

0:20:22 - Stacey

That's incredible. 

0:20:24 - Ed

I could do that. How about that? Oh wow hello. 

0:20:28 - Mark

Hi there Clark Kent Superman. 

0:20:30 - Ed

Here we go. 

0:20:31 - Stacey

Glasses off audience. 

0:20:33 - Ed

Yeah, so I learned culture from Judy and that really became a big part of what, as you know what I do now. 

0:20:41 - Stacey

So then you went from there to Capitol Grill. No, it was years in between. 

0:20:46 - Ed

I went to a place called London Restaurant and then I realized like Peter was like one of my great drinking buddies. Peter Coughlin, he was a great, great guy. You know two Irishmen you know, and I realized, if I didn't get out of there, i was gonna die because you know. 

0:21:01 - Stacey

So Peter was a great drinking buddy. That's about what. 

0:21:03 - Mark

I got sober and. 

0:21:05 - Ed

I then I went and worked at, actually got out of the business for a little bit, but but I was in my early part of my journey for sobriety and I was told that I couldn't work in restaurants anymore by the A&A people. 

0:21:19 - Stacey

Really. 

0:21:21 - Ed

Can't be around. boots, yeah, and BYOBs were in a thing right, at least high-end ones back then. And then, luckily, another person intervened and this guy who was listening to these people tell me, you got to get out of the restaurant. It's like I guess I'll go cut lawns or something. I was really going to. 

I wanted to get sober. so in AA you just have to listen to what they say, sure. And so I was a good student there and this guy pulled me aside. I said don't listen to them. I was like what He said just what you want to do is just whatever you, you know with all your might, pray that when you're at work, that alcohol is just a tool. When you're flambéing, it's just a tool, that's all it. it's a knife, it's a cleaver, it's just another tool. And just ask God, you know, to take away the thoughts that you want to drink that stuff. And I, you know I'm not a religious person, spiritual, not religious So I did that, but it was the intention of it. So I I turned down a job at this huge, wonderful restaurant, told them I was an alcoholic and I couldn't take the job, and the guy called me back a few days later after I turned the job down. 

He said I don't know why I'm doing this, because I certainly don't want to hire an alcoholic, but I see something in you And his name was Tony Shagonis and he brought me into the place and that was phenomenal. It was an amazing experience. So, greenbrier, that place was incredible. I learned how to run really big restaurants And then I decided then he sold the restaurant And then I was brokenhearted because he sold the restaurant. And then I got a phone call. This is interesting. I got a phone call from from this person who said that they saw my resume and they want to talk to me. And I was so naive because I'd only worked in restaurants for about 15 years And I didn't know what the outside world was about. It was a multi-level marketing place. 

It was called Primerica And they sold insurance And it was like this whole pyramid thing, But I didn't know. So I went in there and I'm like, oh, this is cool. Wow, I can become an insurance salesman. You know, I had no clue that it was like that, But what I learned there was a lot more about human nature than I ever learned before. People would, would do anything to be part of something where they could feel special, And that that was an amazing experience. I almost you know, almost lost my home. You know, I'm almost like. You know, you don't make money in these things. 

But I learned that people, if you get them excited about something and yeah, and they feel like they're part of this, like cult, it was like a cult, right. And so I learned the power of cult And I was like, oh, so that was another amazing lesson. And then I went back to the restaurant business. I took a little bit of AA, a little bit of what they were doing in this cult, and I said what are the actual mechanisms where human beings will be engaged with them? They'll actually give their heart and soul to something And it's not about money. And so I started exploring that. And back in the restaurant world, and so I was a chef at two more restaurants. When was the last one was La Campania, which was a renowned French provincial restaurant And it's like a top 20. 

0:24:46 - Mark

Yeah. 

0:24:46 - Ed

Cormier magazine joint. Yeah, And then the whole leadership thing just started calling me too much. And then I started to codify in my own mind, studying these different folks that had these understandings of human nature. How do you build a happy, high performing team? How do you build a great workplace where everybody's like into it and everybody's engaged? So I started that journey. 

0:25:12 - Mark

Did you experience both ends of that spectrum? You were on a high, engaged, love your job team. all the way to the magic is gone, oh yeah. 

0:25:21 - Ed

Yeah, Yeah, I've worked in horrendous teams where there is no magic And it's. It's horrible. So so I there's a lot. 

0:25:30 - Mark

Sometimes there's more learning in that. 

0:25:31 - Ed

Well, failures to learn the teacher. 

0:25:33 - Mark

I've often said, you can learn to be a better manager of people more from watching bad managers than just trying to emulate a good manager. Absolutely, that's that person style to be a good manager, but you can see, wow, i will not do that. Yeah, or that's a toxic place to be. And I know you focus a lot in your company on disengagement. 

0:25:52 - Ed

Yes, that's right. 

0:25:53 - Mark

Right. 

0:25:53 - Stacey

And. 

0:25:53 - Mark

I think you said 75% of people are disengaged. It's $500 billion in productivity. Half the people are looking for jobs And we all believe that. right, because many of us field is engaged from certainly nine to five, and not just, not just corporate. right, retail, industrial, because I think there's a lack of purpose. right, just go in, punch the clock, do my job exactly, and there's no vision of a higher Yes purpose. 

0:26:22 - Stacey

That's right. So how do you get people engaged? 

0:26:24 - Ed

Well, first you have to understand that there's a biology behind it. There's not philosophy, it's biology. 

Like human beings are purpose maximizers Like we, are absolutely built, our brains are wired in to be tribal, to be part of something that's bigger than us, and that we can feel that feeling, that safety and belonging in that space. So you have to understand the science behind it And you know once you kind of have a handle on that, because it's counterintuitive. All of it is a paradox. It's the complete opposite of what comes natural, because natural leadership, as I call it with quotes, is domination. It's, you know, do what I say, or else which is which was the model up until very recently. And thanks to COVID and this newer generation, it's being all blown up And it is backwards and broken. 

But people bought into it before because the economics were different, meaning, you know like I think about my dad. You know he had to work for the same company for 40 some years. Right, it's over. So everybody now doesn't have that. They're not going to go to a business and they're going to be taking care of their for their whole life. But that used to be the the American way. So, because of the new economy, because of the new era workplace, leaders have to learn new skills, period, and that's what one degrees about is teaching these new skills that don't really make sense at first, and so that people will give you permission to be their leader or mentor. You can't. People will not do anything, they will not engage in anything that they don't want to do. Yeah, so these are soft skills. 

0:28:09 - Mark

Yeah, yeah. So just itemize, list a couple of the skills that you think are the most important that people need in order to be successful as a manager, successful as in their own career. What are those skills? 

0:28:18 - Ed

right now, i've kind of redid it recently. 

0:28:20 - Stacey

Yeah, oh great, let's hear. 

0:28:21 - Ed

Yeah, i used to be like, i used to be like, you know, care about people, really care, like actually I would dare to say the word love recently. Love people, you know, like try to have that level of empathy, understand human nature and then take responsibility. And so I've kind of changed the first two out And it's vulnerability now. Okay, it's like being open to just feeling it, you know, and vulnerability is actually a superpower and a lot of people don't understand what vulnerability is, but it's actually being authentic. It's like just being able to just be your freaking self And if you're, you know if your drool is showing and you know you're, you know you're not always perfect. 

People absolutely love that. They love authenticity. Just be vulnerable to that. And then self awareness like just really go on a journey to figure out, like, what's driving you, like most people go through life and don't know why they're doing what they're doing, so they can't find purpose. And then responsibility, like take responsibility for your self awareness and how you, how, and then share that with others. You know, it's like a 3.5 is a share with others. So that's my new, my new code. 

0:29:49 - Mark

So all those self skills that you, self awareness, all that you just discussed, do you find that that needs to be developed in the manager more than the teammate or the person that reports to them? Like what person? I'm probably not asking. No, you're asking a great question, then I'll stop right there. 

0:30:08 - Ed

Yes. So human beings need vision, they need a purpose right to follow. So, like at Saxby's, what we developed Saxby's like, make life better has nothing to do with coffee. People don't care about what you do, they care about why you do. So that's biology, right? 

If you look at Simon Sinek in the Golden Circle and look at that stuff, folks know that it turns out that, you know, we are driven by this, very by our feelings, and the part of our brain that actually makes all of our decisions for us has no language capacity. 

So it's all, it's all very tribal And it's all very like. You know, in nanoseconds people decide whether they trust you or not, and then the neocortex, which is our human brain, you know, justifies the things that we, that we do. But most people go through life and they don't know why they're doing what they're doing. They don't know, they just get up every morning and they are driven by their impulses. So what you have to understand is, if you give people a vision and you give them some purpose, and they're that it's in its yours And they say Well, you know, i kind of like that. You know, we're not trying to build culture, we want to build culture right, there's been a culture, is culture completely overlapped and they absorb the person. This is just somebody touching your belief system and saying You know what. 

I kind of believe that too, And I think I want to hang out with you guys for a while, And that creates loyalty, And so you have a leader and he's got vision and he's got a set of values which is how you do it. What's that Or? 

0:31:47 - Mark

she sorry, you're right They they, they them. 

0:31:51 - Ed

Thank you, stacy. Yeah, i'm showing my age. But in between the vision, the leader, the values that are created by some wonderful person is the team on the other side, but in between them is the manager. And the biggest disconnect that I have to work with is that this wonderful person has this great idea, this great vision for what life could be and what we could do. You find some people who believe too, and he builds a little tribe and then they plunk a manager down in between them. If that manager is not aligned, does not know how to be a leader and does not reflect the true vision and values of the organization and the founder, dysfunction, not only dysfunction. I always say it's worse to have a codified culture than to have it and not actually execute it properly. 

It really messes people up. 

0:32:53 - Stacey

So you're saying if the leader is saying, okay, here's my vision, here's my mission, they hear this from the leader and then the manager isn't translating it. It's worse for the team because they see what the leader is trying to do, but they also see that the manager is not helping or hindering that and it causes crumble. 

0:33:13 - Ed

It causes total disillusion and disengagement. That's the biggest problem. Gallup wrote a book a few years ago called It's the Manager, and they should have said it's the manager's stupid, because this happens all the time. 

Wow we got this great idea and the team's like we believe. And then this person comes in and says all right, you guys, i'm in charge here and this is the way it's gonna go, and they don't know how to connect the one degree connection. That's why one degree, the one degree connection between the vision and the values and the goals of the company and everybody in the organization And the manager. So there's no leadership training out there in most mid-sized companies, right, especially small companies we can't afford that. But that's the thing that messes up all the profits and all the sales growth. And I'm just trying to get the word out that you gotta take time to do that. 

0:34:10 - Mark

Yeah, enlightened leadership, Because too often you're taking the person who is best at their job, the A player, their job. They become the manager And they're automatically not automatically often a B or a C player in that new role, When they should have just been left in their role. Yeah, yeah, true, You get the A productivity out of that. 

0:34:30 - Stacey

They might be asking hey, i want more responsibility, i want you know and you wanna give those people if you're a good leader, sure, we want a career path and all that Career paths, A lot of times these people are dominant right. 

0:34:42 - Ed

That's how they fight their way through. 

0:34:43 - Mark

They're the most vocal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

0:34:47 - Stacey

Can this go the other way too, right? So I think you know I ran a company and you and I talked quite a bit about it. But, I think one of the things that I think back on, the things I probably didn't do. Well, you know, there's a lot of beating up of yourself, you know when there's no more company. But one of the things I think I went the other way. I went too vulnerable, too authentic, too permissive in some senses. 

But, that's just my personality. So how do you if you're the other side of the coin? and I just want everyone to love like I love everybody? they're all my friends you know, and I wanted to you know like I thought, but that wasn't really the way to go either. 

0:35:25 - Ed

Yeah, i learned that from Judy Wicks Like she had this amazing balance of, like she could be an absolute buffoon. You know and have fun, and I'm not saying that you were buffoon. 

0:35:33 - Stacey

Yeah, it's kind of a buffoon. 

0:35:35 - Ed

Yeah, but I mean one time they made her a birthday cake and she sat on it. 

0:35:38 - Mark

I mean it was fantastic. 

0:35:40 - Ed

The pastry chef was pissed but she taught me the center of the one degree methodology that I didn't figure out for like 20 years later. But she could connect. And you have to connect first, You have to be vulnerable, You have to be able to do that, Because if you can't connect with people, then there's no way they're gonna follow you, especially in today's marketplace. Like you know, I've been doing this stuff for like 15 years now and COVID and the great residents Changed everything right. 

It accelerated, and then the generational values that came up. But I want to get out of myself because that's really important to talk about. But you got to connect first. So you have managers who are connectors, you know, and everyone loves them, right. But people also need direction. 

They need order and they need discipline. So it's this balancing act And this is one of the methodologies or techniques I teach leaders, especially newer leaders please connect. But now I got to teach you how to direct. How do you tell people what to do? And it's balancing Connect first, but make sure you direct, and I'll go into an organization and I'll look around, i'll just say which ones are the connectors and which ones are the directors, and the directors those go get our tough bosses, you know. And then the connectors are like but I want everybody to be happy, right, and I teach this balancing act between the two And you do that via the predictive index now, because I saw that in your yeah. 

0:37:15 - Stacey

Which I think is super cool. I don't know. You don't need to go into full detail about it. Well, a? 

0:37:18 - Ed

predictive index is a talent optimization platform that helps people create self-awareness and then understanding others, because human beings are wired in protective mode. So we're, you know, unless you're like a real, real optimist like you and me, a lot of people are like you know, and then they can't see themselves. So the predictive index allows you to see what drives you Is these four factors and its dominance extraversion, patience and formality, developed completely for the workplace and you I'm a Maverick, by the way. you get a profile. 

0:37:57 - Stacey

I don't remember what I am. I know I took it. 

0:37:59 - Ed

Yeah, i'm not a Maverick though. No, you're probably more like an altruist or something. No, there's another one. What are they? 

0:38:05 - Stacey

Do you know What are the? I don't know, i'm a quarantine of them. Oh, nevermind, yeah. 

0:38:11 - Ed

Are you probably a promoter? 

0:38:13 - Stacey

Yes, I think I'm a promoter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

0:38:15 - Ed

Promoters love. They're very collaborative. 

0:38:17 - Stacey

Yes. 

0:38:19 - Ed

And yeah, they're amazing And that was perfect, right. But yeah, Mavericks are, they're out of the box thinkers, they're creative, innovative and they never give up. That's like what a Maverick is. 

They're like whew, but anyway, the predictive index allows me now to get to that self-awareness with the leader fast. Because if you have a dominant leader who is not collaborative and he moves fast, or he or she or they, and they aren't into details which a lot of people who are in innovation aren't into details, by the way they can easily not be great leaders. They've gotten there by their willpower, to your point mark, and then they have to create this whole other. So when they become aware of the things that are messing them up and it's done in a way through the predictive index, it's not judgmental, it's just it's who you are. There's no good or bad, it's just this is who you are And then they look at other people's patterns. 

It's a pattern that's formed by these four factors and they can go oh my God, i need to let this person be more collaborative. I'm like dominating them. Yes, you do. I'm like driving this person crazy because I just never stopped talking And they're more introspective. That's right. I've moved too fast. I gotta slow down, yeah. Yeah, i break the rules all the time and it's making my account crazy. Yeah, when you're with them. 

you should probably not do that, And it just creates this instead of being like you're an asshole and I'm not. It's like. I'm okay, you're okay and this is how. But how can we treat each other better at work? through the predictive index. 

0:39:56 - Stacey

It's pretty cool. Yeah, i loved it too. It was really fun. And then you can also look at one of your coworkers and be like oh, they're a promoter, oh they're a maverick, or oh. And you understand them more in sort of like a third party way versus like oh, that's Ted. And he's just being a pain or whatever Ted is Ted. 

0:40:11 - Ed

Ted is Ted Longest, ted's not, you know. 

0:40:14 - Stacey

And we're not really talking about the real Ted. 

0:40:16 - Ed

Whatever the Ted is No, i know this is a big Ted. 

0:40:18 - Mark

I usually use Bob, bob, john, mary. 

0:40:21 - Stacey

Yeah, as long as they're good people and they're living within the values. So I'm sorry, do you have something? No go ahead It's so interesting right Like I keep thinking of questions, but I don't wanna, I don't know I was gonna say is there an example of someone that you've helped along the way, like why did they come to you? You don't have to name names, but why did they come to you And how did you take them from whatever, wherever they were, they came to you to success, Like what do you have? 

0:40:50 - Ed

Question. You don't want me to talk about you. You can. 

0:40:54 - Stacey

No, i suppose, i don't know, it's gonna be a success story. 

0:40:56 - Ed

So it is. 

0:40:58 - Stacey

I see you smile, i see you happy and I'm very happy, happy now, i'm so happy that you're happy. 

0:41:04 - Ed

So yeah, i have a dozen clients companies mostly and within those organizations are dozens of people that I interact with every day and I'm helping them to evolve into a happy place for them at work, and so I guess an example I think a great example is Nick Bayer. Yeah yeah, you know, nick, when I met Nick, we were both not in a great place. We both had the same partner in two different enterprises. 

0:41:37 - Stacey

Nick, by the way for listeners is the CEO of Saxby's in Philadelphia. 

0:41:42 - Ed

And boy he has evolved, and the company's evolved. I mean mind-blowing it's evolved It's an experiential learning platform for students that just happens to be a coffee company. 

0:41:51 - Stacey

Right right. 

0:41:53 - Ed

So when I met Nick, he was with his person, wanted to franchise. Nick just wanted to build community. And one day I was about to open this big steakhouse and I was talking to my team because I was a real believer even back then about core values and building these value systems where people can understand the kind of behavior that we want, how a team should behave on its best day. It's an ideal? it's not, you know, it's. We don't want people to be perfect. Just why don't we just respect each other and why don't we have some integrity and that kind of stuff? Let's work on that. So I was giving a speech or talk to my team about core values, and his dad walked by the door because we were in this big office. 

0:42:37 - Stacey

Nick bears down. 

0:42:37 - Ed

Yeah, Nick's the way to do it. They used to work. 

0:42:39 - Stacey

Okay. 

0:42:41 - Ed

The parents would work with him And he was new to Philadelphia He was, i think, in Atlanta before that And I just remember this guy backing up, standing at the door and listening and then running away. And I was like and he went and found Nick And he said, nick, you gotta hear this guy, he's. I think he's what you need. You talk like this all the time. And Nick and I got together, we talked and we interacted And he started to understand like I've got to live by my belief system, not by money or franchising. 

And franchising is like you know, it can be good, but not a big fan. It's the overlord taking all the cream off the top and you get the scraps Right And that's why sometimes franchises aren't great. So he was like I don't want to franchise anymore. So he got out of that and we worked together on and off. We build his value system and his culture He had already had, i think, make life better. And over the years, on and off, we've worked together And I went back in a few years ago and we redid the value system because he now had a vision that he wanted to create an experiential learning cafe in universities all around the country where young people would learn to be leaders in real time. 

Yeah, and so I helped him work on all that kind of cultural leadership stuff And I watched him because he wanted it to evolve. It was already there. It's just that he was in a construct that you know, I've got to make money, I've got to make this business successful. And now look at him. 

0:44:13 - Stacey

So you're saying that leaders shouldn't focus on making money Per se? 

0:44:19 - Ed

You know there's, there was a study done Called Good to Great And it was written in the late 90s when it was all about making money, right, and it turned everything upside down. And it turned out it was the opposite of what everybody else was doing. This is the theme right, because the way our brains are structured, because the thing that really matters doesn't have language capacity, the louder voice of logic and materialism drowns out the voice of purpose and goodness. So we default to that. So, yeah, making money will happen. 

If you look at the Good to Great study, if you find enlightened leadership, certain leadership, whatever you want to call it. You find true believers. You build a culture where everybody's focused on this one wonderful idea. You face the brutal facts but you don't give up hope. So you have awareness and then the money comes. 

It's very interesting when he aligned his vision of the world to his business and it took years, by the way, it doesn't happen overnight. He is now. You know. I was emailing him the other day And he said we still stay in contact And he just did this amazing capital raise, right, like the money came and they're going to expand even more. Wow, and before it was like we're never trying to force it. It wasn't happening. So you got to line up the chakras. Success is lining up the chakras of enlightened leadership team in a culture that believes having a very focused platform, which we call the hedgehog. You know what are you passionate about, what can you be great out, and then what drives your economic engine? And those three things have to stay aligned. And when you line those chakras up, it doesn't always happen. But And then you can't quit, you're just going to never know. 

Like I've seen so many people quit before success. 

0:46:20 - Stacey

Right Yeah. 

0:46:21 - Mark

Yeah, what? what's taking you back to the restaurant world? You've valued the power. You've valued the position you value. What do you value now? What is the most important As you define your personal success? what do you value most? 

0:46:40 - Ed

I want to share. I think that this generation now is a little lost. And I'm not a generation, you know SmackDown guy I like. I have millennials as children, but I think that they're lost And I want to share with them how an average guy With just a little bit of optimism and a lot of grit Can find happiness and purpose. Like I, i can't, i can't. 

0:47:15 - Mark

Yeah. 

0:47:20 - Stacey

Yeah, you get. He's getting emotional, and I understand, because this is this is you, this is your heart. Ed, you're going to make me cry too. 

0:47:26 - Mark

Well and you went through some obstacles. I can't believe my life, Yeah. 

0:47:30 - Stacey

Yeah, you're very blessed, but you made it a loser right. I mean, i should know. 

0:47:34 - Ed

I should have been a loser, but a couple of people came along and pulled my ass out Key moments and I was crazy to think I just changed the game. 

And so I want to share that with people like And I think what's happening now, the thing that's really driving me if I'm answering your question properly, mark, tell me. If I'm not, as you can tell, i can easily go off the rails There. There's these three things that you need to be happy at work and their purpose, a transcendent purpose. That work matters, and the new generation has that absolutely right. The first generation that stood up and said we're not just going to do freaking work, we want purpose, boom. So they're so right about that. And the next thing you need is a sense of mastery. You got to be good at something, like everybody in this room is good at something, right? 

And yeah, you are, i know you And, and that sense of mastery gives you real sense of security and and gives you identity and and and that's real value. And then the next thing that people need to be happy at work is autonomy. They want to be self-directed. They don't want to be micromanaged, they want to be free. So the new generation wants purpose and they want autonomy. That's the work at home, work life balance which is, by the way, a lie that's been sold to a lot of people. Work life balance doesn't exist, thank you. But the mastery part is getting lost, because what's happening is is that people are wandering from job to job to job and they're never getting mastery. 

So my 20 years in the restaurant business, 20, well, 35 years, 25 as a chef and then as a manager and owner and COO and all that stuff I got deep mastery. So that bought me my autonomy. You cannot become autonomous if you're not good at something. So I'm trying to get the word out that you know. I know that you find a place where the culture is right. Don't worry so much about making the money, not if you're young, you know it'll come and and find a place, find a tribe to hang out with, but get good at something, something And and I know that sounds very like baby boomer, but it's, it's. I just see it over and over again now. So I But is there an opportunity to do? 

that these days, like it's there is, ok, yeah, how you just there's lots of places that need people and they're trying to change the workplace. Covid forced the workplace to wake up And to change the way that they build their workplaces and the way they treat their people and the opportunities that they give and career path. The whole thing is there's a revolution happening right now And so it's. It's not happening fast enough for me sometimes, but that's what I do. But if you can build a better workplace and then someplace people can feel safe and they feel like they're growing and they have that opportunity. But I'm just, i'm just trying to get out the word like stay somewhere for a year and a half, you know, don't jump around and around around, because you'll never, you'll always go into someplace and you'll never get autonomy and you'll never get that next thing because you'll never get autonomy, because you just never, you'd ever learned. 

0:50:59 - Stacey

You have to always rely on somebody else. You always will have to collaborate. 

0:51:02 - Mark

unless you learn, you'll be my own manager, something in and out? Yeah, this person doesn't know what they're doing. Right, i'm going to have to like, right, yeah? 

0:51:08 - Stacey

Yeah, well, my gosh, i have so many questions. I can't believe we're almost at an hour. And yeah And I. So normally what we do is do like couple lightning round. Just a few little fun questions and get us out of the deep. And and then I want you to tell everybody how to get a hold of you, oh, ok, and how to grow your business and what you really want. Ok, you know in the future. Yeah, no, that's one of our, one of our things. But OK, what's on your bedside table right now? 

0:51:34 - Ed

I'm reading Enlightened Leadership by Matt Pepsi. He's a PI guy and he's always about leadership. There's a book about astronomy that I'm reading as well. 

0:51:46 - Stacey

Why. 

0:51:47 - Ed

I'm fascinated by the universe, stars and stuff. And then, oh my gosh, i'm having trouble reading this book And I can't remember the title. It's about hospitality. It's written God, it's called Unreasonable Hospitality. Oh yes, it's about a restaurant in New York that was the number one restaurant in the world and how they they did hospitality so outrageously that they created a whole ecosystem out of it. Damn It's cool. Go any extra mile. 

0:52:20 - Stacey

Very, very cool. And then one thing is my favorite question Do you have any to talk to? I have one. You ask first on this one last. 

0:52:27 - Mark

You've called yourself some terrible things, oops. And you called yourself a loser. You called yourself a asshole. I just want you to give us two or three compliments of yourself. 

0:52:36 - Stacey

Oh, good one, Good one Mark. 

0:52:39 - Mark

Even the one words, single word, hmm, hmm. 

0:52:49 - Ed

I guess gritty is one A. I'm learning to be empathetic. Teacher motivator. 

0:53:02 - Mark

Clearly humble. 

0:53:04 - Stacey

Yeah, very humble. 

0:53:04 - Mark

We should. 

0:53:05 - Stacey

We should have had a truth teller with you. 

0:53:07 - Mark

Yeah, yeah, to pull up with humbleness, actually, i could probably talk to how amazing you are. I don't want to embarrass you. No, it's good. 

0:53:13 - Stacey

I'm good, so then, just to piggyback on that one. I love that mark. That was an awesome question because you are sort of self deprecating like to the max. 

0:53:21 - Mark

Yeah, yeah. 

0:53:23 - Stacey

What's one thing that now no one knows about you, that you can break on this podcast. 

0:53:29 - Mark

Hmm. 

0:53:31 - Ed

Wow, i've never been asked that question Very few people. I guess, because I'm such an extrovert and I'm so out there. I don't know if there's much I haven't told. Um, oh, i wrote about this in my. I used to have used a very active imagination and I used to pretend like I was a time traveler. 

0:53:53 - Stacey

Wow. 

0:53:54 - Ed

Up into my like 20s. 

0:53:56 - Stacey

Wait, tell me about that. 

0:53:57 - Ed

Yeah, i would. I would do this game where I would I started as a child because amazing dream machine that I still have these incredibly vivid dreams, sorry, piano. And I would. I would sit down with, like you folks and I'd close my eyes and I started to imagine and I would come in and I didn't know who you were, even if you were my best friends, or where I was or what, what year it was, and I would have to figure out what my relationship was with you, what who I was in this thing that I landed in because I would land in another body. It sounds actually like a lot of fun. 

0:54:33 - Mark

And I would mental exercise. 

0:54:35 - Ed

I would do this wild game and I would. My friends, you know, would be not knowing I was doing this. Whoa. I would start asking them questions about themselves in a way that they didn't you know it was this, and I kept doing it into my 20s. 

0:54:48 - Stacey

And no one knew that. no one knew I was so embarrassed by it. 

0:54:51 - Ed

But why? 

0:54:53 - Stacey

Why was that embarrassing? 

0:54:54 - Ed

Because I was. that's some five year olds, so magical thing, that. I was. I was, i just had this over act and I'd get bored easily. So that would you know, i'd be with my friends and they'd be like Hey, man, you just make another joint. I'd be like no, i just want to imagine and play. 

0:55:10 - Stacey

And you go into this time travel machine and show up as as who I didn't know, a different skin, ed. Yeah, that's sick. Who is this person? We should write a movie about that. It's really cool. That's cool. I love that. That's almost a form of like dissociation. Really, you know, maybe you just felt like not really being here. 

0:55:26 - Ed

Or maybe I didn't want to be me, yeah. 

0:55:28 - Stacey

Ooh Yeah, so much more there. What'd you? 

0:55:32 - Ed

say I didn't realize, i self, self self-deferricating I am, but I am. 

0:55:35 - Stacey

Yeah, yeah. 

0:55:36 - Ed

Well, when you're an egomaniac, narcissist in your reformed, you know yeah, you can go back to that, yeah. Right Gotta be careful. 

0:55:44 - Stacey

Um, so how can people get in touch with you, learn about you, work with you, and which, in which channel do you want them to reach out to? 

0:55:54 - Ed

Yeah, So I wish I was better on social media. But, um, you know, I am one degree coaching and so I have a website, and in that website is a lot of resources. There's ways to contact me. It's wwwonedegreecoachingcom. Um, I write a weekly blog that I'm really passionate about. 

Ed's notes And um, you can go on the website and sign up for that. Please do that. And that you, i share. Every Sunday morning I share some thoughts about the world leadership and maybe a little bit about myself, but mostly about, you know, building happy, high performing workplaces and, uh, in this new era that we're in, Love it, thank you. This has been great. 

0:56:41 - Mark

Thanks so much. It's been great Love tapping into a great mindset like yours. Love you. Thank you for coming. Thank you, yeah, this has been awesome. 

0:56:47 - Ed

Thanks for having me. I have another two hours for you there Yeah yeah, you're gonna start charging us. 

0:56:52 - Stacey

Yeah, thank you for coming. 

0:56:54 - Ed

I really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you guys, thank you. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page