Don't Let Your Love Fail! | Ep 044

➡️ About the Guest: Ken Blackman

Join us as we explore marriage and long-term relationships with sex and relationship coach Ken Blackman. Discover strategies to reignite passion and navigate challenges in committed partnerships.

➡️ Chapters
(00:00) - Introduction and Ken Blackman's Approach
(02:38) - Rekindling Lost Spark in Relationships
(05:15) - Commitment and Being "Done" in Relationships
(09:45) - Long-Term View of Marriage and Relationships
(14:21) - Relationship ESP and Non-Verbal Communication
(20:03) - Reviving Sex Life in Long-Term Relationships
(24:37) - Monogamy and Open Relationships
(28:33) - Divorce Statistics and Reasons
(31:08) - Ken's Background and Resources
(32:50) - Conclusion and Outro

➡️ Highlights
(00:28 - 01:58) Rekindling Relationships With Ken Blackman (89 Seconds)
(05:17 - 06:18) Building Empathy Through Conversations (61 Seconds)
(09:45 - 11:03) Long-Term View in Successful Marriage (78 Seconds)
(13:49 - 16:01) Dynamic Tension in Relationships (131 Seconds)
(18:22 - 19:57) Improving Relationships Through Communication (95 Seconds)
(26:58 - 27:52) Value and Confidence in Relationships (55 Seconds)
(31:36 - 31:58) Discovering Strengths Through Personal Struggles (22 Seconds)

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Stacey: https://www.instagram.com/staceymgrant/
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➡️ More about the guest: Ken Blackman
The Blog: https://medium.com/straight-talkers
The Website: https://kenblackman.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kenblackmancoach/

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The Gurus & Game Changers Video Podcast  follows the paths of influential leaders from humble beginnings and/or seemingly insurmountable obstacles to where they are now.

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➡️ Thanks for watching:
Marriage, Relationship, Passion, Commitment, Communication, Intimacy, Sex, Love, Positive Reinforcement, Mindset, Uncoupling, Openness, Monogamy, Non-monogamous, Longevity, Satisfaction, Coaching, Expert Advice, Strategies

Transcript

00:02 - Mark (Host)
Are you happy in your marriage? 

00:04 - Stacey (Host)
So happy. 

00:05 - Mark (Host)
Today, you know what? Genuinely watching you answer that question, I know that was a genuine response. 

00:11 - Stacey (Host)
It's true, I really, really am, but marriage is not. You know, there's a lot of things you have to do. You have to have a specific mindset. 

00:19 - Mark (Host)
Yeah, it beats you down it does not beat you down. Oh my God, karen, so sorry, depends on your view. No, look, I agree, you're in love, you're out of love, you're in love, you're out of love. That's what marriage is, and you play the long game and you're committed to each other. You love the life you build and you stay together. But for a lot of couples statistically, more than half of couples say no, I'm done, I'm out and our guest today, Ken Blackman. 

00:45
He takes those couples that are this close and rekindles them back to that first dance they had at their wedding. It gives them that feeling back, Isn't that? 

00:53 - Stacey (Host)
amazing. Yes, and he's also a sex coach. I loved. 

00:58 - Mark (Host)
You just wanted to say sex one more time. 

01:00 - Stacey (Host)
I could tell that you were getting kind of uncomfortable in the conversation. I was conversation, I was like trying to finish it quickly, you know, just so you wouldn't, you know, get all. 

01:08 - Mark (Host)
Is that a double entendre Be? 

01:09 - Stacey (Host)
red. Oh no, I meant no. 

01:14 - Mark (Host)
So yeah, so listen up, Enjoy and your relationship will benefit. 

01:18 - Stacey (Host)
Ken. 

01:19 - Mark (Host)
Blackman. 

01:21 - Stacey (Host)
Hi, I'm Stacey. 

01:23 - Mark (Host)
And I am Mark, and this is the Gurus and Game Changers podcast. So take a moment right now, maybe close your eyes and think of that most important person in your life boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, whoever it is. Are you smiling? Are you smiling on the inside? Does that person's voice still get you excited when you hear it for the first time? Or maybe when you see them for the first time in the morning? Or maybe you're living together and you're not even connected? Or maybe it's worse. Maybe you're just done. You're done. You want out. There's no way back right, or is there? Today's guest, ken Blackman, has spent 25 plus years working with me. What he calls precipice couples people on the very verge of relationship destruction, and he helps them rediscover the connection and see the value in the relationship that they once had. Today, this is your chance to see how good or maybe how not so good you have it with your relationship, from a man who has pretty much seen it all, ken Blackman. Ken, welcome to the show buddy, great to be here. 

02:27 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
Thank you for having me on. 

02:28 - Stacey (Host)
I just wanted to ask you. I mean, every couple has rocky times, right, so it happens to everyone. If your relationship has lost its spark, how do you get it back? 

02:38 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, you're right, there's. You know there's a world of what that could mean. Do you know there's there's a a world of what that could mean? Do you know what I mean? Like I, what I end up doing is having a long conversation with each of them and to see you know what's going on and and what they, what originally brought them together. 

02:56
Because what I found is, most of the time, believe it or not, people don't break up because of problems. They break up because the good isn't good enough anymore, or the good just isn't good enough to do the work you know to get, because the problems are solvable. And so I'd love to start with what's what brought you together. What do you love about your partner? Like, it's easy for us to be here talking and you're telling me all the really messed up stuff and all the reasons you know why you're struggling or you've lost the spark. Great, we can talk about that. Now tell me why I should care about your relationship. Tell me why, in spite of all that, you're sitting here, you know, with a coach hoping to get it back. Let's start with the good and see where you got off track with that, that's. If there's one thing it's. I would say, it's that. 

03:56 - Stacey (Host)
I love that. That makes it positive. So it's not like they're coming into your office and complaining about each other. You're saying, okay, let's go to what was really good one time and revisit that. Does that work? Does it help? 

04:07 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
It absolutely does. And the reason is I mean I might be jaded, but people come in really trying to convince me why their relationship isn't going to work. And it's hard because the recoveries, the bounce backs that I've seen like major issues, major problem. I mean, you know, like they, they disagree about things, they're, they're not well matched they, they have problems in the bedroom. They fight all the time Like it could be. The problems are solvable If the good in the relationship is worth what it takes for them to actually make the difficult changes. And so for a long time you know I like working with couples. For a long time I worked with couples who were committed because they have skin in the game. I'm going to ask them to do hard things. I'm going to ask them to do a deep, deep look at the way they are and make difficult changes so they better have skin in the game. That makes it worth it. 

05:11 - Mark (Host)
You're trying to remind them of what that skin was. 

05:15 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
And then have them tell me if it's worth it. There's times when I get on a call with someone and I'm talking to them. You know, what I do is first I ask a lot of questions. I don't, you know, I just listen and I ask questions until at least one of them, like I, can see the world through their eyes, I understand like I get it, I really can feel where they're coming from, what they're experiencing. Then I talked to the other one and I get to where I can see, see the world through their eyes. 

05:42
But sometimes I'm talking to someone and I'm like to myself. I'm thinking this person feels like they're done, and so there can be a moment where someone internally says I'm done. They don't say it out loud, you know, they are not saying it in the call, but there might be this thing that I feel, and so then I might stop and I say, hey, can I talk to this person alone for a second and I'll say tell me the truth. Are you done Like are we doing? I 100% understand due diligence and doing everything you can, but between me and you right now, are you done Like are we really talking about? Like you're tapped out? It's not, you don't have anything more to give. And if that's the case, that becomes the conversation that we have. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not wedded to what the outcome is. What I'm wedded to is an outcome that is better than what they have right now. 

06:52
Can somebody come back from being done? They can, but we have that conversation. It's not going to be me convincing them. It's in their court, not for me to change their mind, or even for their partner to change their mind, but for them to say look at what I'm walking away from if I walk away from this. So that brings it back to what is it? What do you do you have? What is there that that is driving what this relationship has been? And if it's not what you want anymore, then then I will help you guys uncouple amicably, like I. I'll have you break up and have a better, a better relationship with each other than than than the one that we're dissolving. Right, we'll craft a new way of relating that. Isn't you guys talking about each other as a couple? 

07:44 - Stacey (Host)
Wow, that's valuable. It's really valuable. I wonder if you've ever had to say to somebody like this is too far gone, I can't help you, or if you just will help in any scenario. 

07:53 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
No, no, in the coaching world it can be hit or miss. If it misses, I consider that a failure on the coach's part to vet the coaching relationship. I want to know are they coachable? Because it could be. It could be that one of them. I can sense that they're just not going to change. They can talk about all these things that they want to change, but I can sense, like we have a conversation, like you could call it a sales process, but it's really a getting to know your process before we actually decide. Ok, this is good. We talk and talk. We have a conversation. 

08:29
I talk to them maybe a week later and nothing that we talked about the previous week has sunk in. I'm wondering to myself number one are they coachable? So that's the first question. The second question is do they have problems that I actually believe they can solve? And then do I feel capable of actually guiding them to the place where they can solve those problems? So there's a bunch of questions that need to be answered. Once we get to the place where all of us are like we are all feeling good about this, there's a very high probability that it's going to go well. So I have to leave them like having feeling successful and like it was like the whole thing was worth it to them what do you think is like the, the best you know question that you ask to couples to get to the core? 

09:13 - Stacey (Host)
is there one? I'm sure that's. I know you have a ton of questions you ask, but is there one that you're like? Oh, this is one that's going to get me in? 

09:19 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
I I've already shared my trick question. The trick question is okay, you've done a really good job of telling me all the problems you have. Tell me what's good about this relationship, or tell me what was good about it. Tell me how you met. What was it about them that caught your eye? What was it that had you think, oh, this might be more than just an acquaintance, Like you know, let's talk about what's there that's worth saving. If there's a trick question, it's that. 

09:45 - Mark (Host)
I once heard somebody say that marriage is falling in and out of love constantly. It's just this cycle You're in love, you're out of love, you're in love, you're out of love. So that seems to suggest that the successful marriages are playing the long game. They understand that and they have a long-term view of their relationship. Like my parents, in that generation you didn't get divorced, you were together forever. And then I think the rate's around 50% overall and I know it depends on when you get married, at what age. That type of first marriage, second marriage I have those stats actually, which are fascinating, but it seems like overall there isn't a, there's an. Easier couples or have a higher propensity to just say this is hard, I'm out um now versus back in the day. What are you seeing? 

10:34 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
yeah, um, I think there's. There's, there's some truth to that. Keep in, like, the relationship I'm aiming for for them is very different from the average relationship out there that survives and makes it Like if that's the bar. I'm actually aiming for a higher bar, and so there's a few other factors. I'll say the way I would say it and you can see if this matches what what you're talking about. 

11:04
So, first of all and this is something my wife taught me actually- that there is this way in which you make a decision that you're going to maintain your own high regard for your partner, that you're going to maintain your own high regard for your partner. So she's very protective of her high regard for me. That gives her the freedom to be angry at me, to be hurt, to be disappointed and to talk to me, to actually have those feelings come up. She's not going to suppress the feelings. She's actually going to feel those feelings, because the only way you can really deal with emotions is to feel them, to actually have the emotion, feel the emotion and express the emotion. So she can do all that. 

11:47
What happens is when someone gets angry, there's a difference between being angry and being vindictive, being hurtful, being like letting your view of your partner drop into contempt, like once you're contemptuous. That is a failure on your part. So there's this baseline of high regard that we hold for each other, that we ourselves protect our high regard for each other. It's not their job to like they. She's earned it, I've earned it, you know. So so that actually leaves freedom to get angry at each other without wreckage. So that's the first piece. There's another piece, which is whether you're in relationship to get your needs met or because you, you love being in relationship. You, you love being in relationship. 

12:39
If it's like you're in relationship to get your needs met, you you're already casting it like going to work to get the paycheck. So you can either go to work to get the paycheck or you can love the work that you do, you can be passionate about. You can cook because you have to eat, or you can like get into the cooking classes and you can get into the. You know like I want to learn get into the cooking classes and you can get into the. You know like I want to learn, like these cuisines and you're super into it. So I I am into relationship. 

13:08
We have hard conversations, we say uncomfortable things to each other, we admit uncomfortable things about ourselves, we call each other out. I don't experience it as work. I experience it as relationship is my jam. The messed up thing that nobody talks about is you can love the perks of relationship, what you get from the relationship. There's times when it's so uncomfortable and painful the things that we're saying to each other, but underneath that, I love every minute of it other. But underneath that, I love every minute of it In the same way, like a skateboarder who's trying and failing, trying and failing, trying and failing tries 50 times, 100 times is one really difficult thing. It's work and it's hard, but underneath it he loves every minute of it. So I think there's a switch where you can say relationship is my jam, marriage is my jam and I'm going to savor every single minute of it does that make sense? 

14:03 - Stacey (Host)
yes, it's like mindset it's his mindset it's like anything else, you just have to have the right mindset I love that thing your wife taught you. I'm holding you in high regard you've talked about something called relationship esp. Do you want to talk a little bit about that here, because I think it's pretty fascinating? 

14:21 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
There are times when she says I wish she could just know, and he says I wish she could just like, overtly express what you know, what she wants, what you know what she wants, and so there's this dynamic tension, and I believe, actually, that she's the one that's right about this. We, as men, can develop, or or those of us who think more in terms of I pride myself on my rationality, I pride myself on my productivity. I pride myself on my productivity, I pride myself on, I don't know like, my ability to be an earner, like I pride myself on being a leader, being like the one who takes the lead. Whatever that list is right, what we aren't taught is the actual skills of relationship, which are nonverbal, they're intuitive. The example I give is hey guys, thanks for listening. 

15:22 - Mark (Host)
If you like what you're hearing, please leave us a review, give us a follow, subscribe, subscribe all those things, all those things. We love it because we read each and every comment and it helps shape the show, so we would appreciate it. 

15:34 - Stacey (Host)
Please, and back to the show. 

15:37 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
They're sitting there watching TV. She wants him to do the dishes. He knows that she wants him to do the dishes. He's upset with her because she's not coming out and asking him to do the dishes and because she's not doing that, he's going to hold it against her and just not do it. Well, you know, if that's what you're feeling, then come out and tell me and just not do it. Well, you know, if that's what you're feeling, then come out and tell me. 

16:01
So what I have to say to the guy is dude, if you know she wants you to do the dishes, then she communicated, she has made all the communications that she needs to make for you to know, and you are doing her a disservice by pretending not to know. And you are doing her a disservice by pretending not to know. And so I start to show him that there are things he does know that he that he ignores, because we've been trained not to listen to that. Well, I've been trained that if I, if I have a feeling that I want to kiss her, I've been trained. No, I have to wait until I get an overt, like you know, consensual, and that's there's reasons why those, why consent, and all those things are in place, but it forecloses on all the things that can happen, for example in the bedroom, if he starts to listen to his accurate, spidey sense, instead of playing Simon Says, where she has to tell him everything what to do before he does it. And so there is a way that he can actually start to get to know her so well. He's doing what it is that she wants before she even opens her mouth, and it does feel to both of them like ESP. And so I've developed ways of teaching the couple. He can't do it alone, but I teach the couple how to cultivate that skill in him so that in and out of the bedroom he actually starts to feel like oh I don't know how, I know I just have this hunch and I'm going to trust it and listen to it. And oh my God, how accurate it is when he starts to develop it. So let me talk about the other side of the coin. So I'm a sex and relationship coach. I teach this stuff. Do you know how fucked I am if I am not willing to say I don't know how to touch you right now? Can you, can you show me like if my ego has gotten so big that I presume that I know and when? When actually I don't know. 

18:02
You need both. You need to be able to ask, you need to be able to actually. If she feels comfortable telling you what she wants, it helps to be receptive to that and to listen to actually. If she feels comfortable telling you what she wants, it helps to be receptive to that and to listen to that, which not everyone is. You know, not everyone listens to their partner who's telling them what it is that they want. So you do need to be receptive. But once it gets to a place where you do know, and really your only gripe is that is her style of communication. Your only gripe is that is her style of communication. Her style of communication is the style that makes relationships 10 times better, not the, the formal written out contract or the instruction manual that that men uh lean on and expect. You know, like I can't do it until you give me the instruction manual. I can't go shopping until you give me the instruction manual. 

18:51
I can't go shopping until you give me the list. I can't. You know I'm I'm incapable because and to be fair to men like, there's again a reason why they're like this they've tried to tell the man side. They've tried. She shot stuff down. It could be that she's so controlling right that there's a very narrow path for him to follow to get it right, and so he's only going to succeed if she's actually giving him instructions. So the whole thing is not working for both of them. She's being too controlling and too criticizing and not enough space for him to actually learn. He maybe doesn't listen enough or has become powerless, he's become incapable. No, we're going to dismantle all of that. She's going to show him what she wants. He's going to actually start to develop his capacity to know but not know how he knows and listen to that and hone and polish it. This is relationship ESP. Does it make sense? 

19:56 - Stacey (Host)
Oh, it's fabulous. You mentioned that you work with couples about sex, so I have you know. Of course I have like at least 10. 

20:03 - Mark (Host)
Two pages Sex questions. No, I'm just kidding. No. 

20:06 - Stacey (Host)
So the first question I thought of was so a lot of you know I've been in a marriage for like 10, 15 years and a lot of people that I know have been in marriage for a long time. And when that happens, sometimes it's not like you don't want to have sex, but sex can stall. And then it's like all of a sudden weeks and months, and there's some people that are very, very consistent with it. But for those that do have the stalling, how can you rev it back up again? How can you? What advice do you have for sex stalling couples? 

20:35 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
So I go back to the very basics, the very fundamentals of what sex is like, what, what is pleasurable to the body, what feels good to the body, and so I put the body front and center. Think of it this way you cook dinner a couple times a week together, you cook dinner together and you enjoy a good meal. You would both have different food preferences. You got to figure that out. That gets figured out. It's not a big deal, it gets figured out. You figure out how to get up from the table, both of you having had a really good meal and neither of you having to eat anything that you didn't want to eat. Right, same in the bedroom. You can figure out how both people can get something that feels good to them without having to do anything they actually don't like or want to do. Like or want to do. Well, we will figure that out. Then, because you're doing this a couple times a week, you try new cuisines. You figure out your flow in the kitchen like, oh, I love cooking the steak. You love, you know, roasting the asparagus. Right, and so, pretty soon after five years, your meals are fantastic, they're dialed into you and it wasn't that hard. You know, your meals are fantastic, they're dialed into you and it wasn't that hard, you know. 

21:53
So I think the default can be that your sex is better five years from now than it was in the beginning. Wow, I think that's how it should be. Like my, my sex with my wife this month is better than it's been, and a year from now it's going to be better than it is now. I think that's that's how it should be. It is now. I think that's how it should be. 

22:12
And again I come back to the body. So nothing that doesn't feel good to your body. And how does your body actually like to be touched? If you only want to be touched here in this particular way, for five minutes, that's what you do. And once your body learns that it is only going to have good experiences, then it's going to start to want more. Your body is going to actually want oh, let's do that again tomorrow. Oh, let's do that, you know. And from there, from those very humble beginnings where you just put a rule we're only going to do things that feel good and you start with whatever that is five minutes of this kind of touch and that's it. You stop when you're done. Or fantastic, delicious, amazing connected sex. I think that the potential for sex with someone you're actually doing this with over time far exceeds anything like going out and finding someone new. 

23:23 - Stacey (Host)
Do you think then, like, if you're out of practice, should you schedule it, because I feel like it takes away from the romance. Yeah, right of practice, should you schedule? 

23:30 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
it like, because I feel like it takes away from the romance. Yeah, right, so keep in mind this idea that it has to be romantic, or originally it was fueled by romance and that's fine. I don't want to take away from that, but that's not working anymore. And it didn't get you into the territory you wanted to like both of you I'm assuming both of you actually like sex and want sex but you've gotten to a place where it's just dead. So what's happened is the game has changed. There's this fantastic quote by Joni Mitchell where she talks about how, if you want the same experience again and again and again, how, if you want the same experience again and again and again, you keep seeing new people. If you want endless variety and new, new, new, you stay with the same person. Yeah, it's an interesting way to look at it. Wow, yeah, you know, like, schedule it to answer your question. Yes, schedule it. Find out what you, what your body, likes. Now. That's different from what it liked a couple of years ago. 

24:30 - Stacey (Host)
Do you think that monogamy is a natural thing? 

24:37 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
Man? That is an amazing question. I have been in my life monogamous and I have in my life been practiced like consensual non-monogamy, meaning I'm in a, I'm in an ongoing committed relationship with someone, and that does not exclude us having sex with other people. So I am not in a position, nor do I believe, that one is better than the other. What I can tell you is, in the relationship I'm in now, we're monogamous by choice, not because one of us would be upset if the other one, like if one of us really felt drawn to somebody, you know. But we're monogamous because we like what we have at home. We've, we've crafted, we've, we've like created, we've built a relationship that's so good, so delicious and so nourishing just so good in so many different ways. Being with someone else doesn't sound appealing. 

25:46 - Mark (Host)
How many people are coming to you saying they're opening their relationships? That can't be a big number. 

25:51 - Stacey (Host)
You'd be surprised, Mark. 

25:53 - Mark (Host)
I would be surprised. Is it growing? 

26:00 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
15 to 20%, just off the top of my head as I think back to the last couple years of people who have come to talk to me 15%, 20%. 

26:10 - Mark (Host)
And they stay together, they're happy in an open relationship. Yeah, I guess. I'm thinking open marriage. Is that different to you? Open relationship versus open marriage? 

26:19 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
You can do both. Well, think of it this way In a relationship, everyone has a line in the sand, right? Sure, the line that your partner is not to cross on. So on one side of the line is all the things your partner can do with anybody, like, if your partner wants to go, you know, hang with with her friends and and uh, or you know, like, there's lots of things that your partner can do with other people that you're happy You're go, go, have a great time. On the other side of that line are the things you only want her to do with you. So it's just a matter of agreeing what you're okay with your partner doing. 

26:58
I don't think people leave each other for someone else. I think people leave each other because the relationship isn't strong. It takes a lot of self-confidence, self-sourced self-worth. I know what my value is to my partner. I know the strength of our relationship to be able to say go, have fun with this other person, come back, tell me all about it, come back in better shape than you were before, share all that juice with me. We'll have a good time over it. You know, whatever you, whatever you experience that you like, let's see if we can incorporate it into art, like it takes a high level of self-worth, a high level of confidence, a high level of trust and and salt solidity in the relationship and under those circumstances it isn't threatening to have your partner have a rich, full life and have fun, including maybe having sex with another human being. That's wild. 

27:53 - Mark (Host)
Let me share some numbers with you. 

27:55
So I looked it up 2024 stats on divorce Great. Here are three numbers 41% of all first marriages are ending in divorce, 60% of all second marriages and 73% of all third marriages. I have have to tell you that's the exact opposite of what I've always believed. I believe that you're more successful if you get married the second time, because now you've learned. You've made your mistakes, you've learned how to be married right. These numbers seem to indicate that you're learning how to get divorced better and better three out of four third marriages are ending in divorce. 

28:33
What's your take on that? 

28:35 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
off the top of my head right like I don't know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull, I'm gonna pull this one out of my ass. They said the problem is over there. What I need to do is find the person who doesn't have all the problems of that asshole I just walked away from. We, including myself, are not taught how to do relationship. Well, right, I had to learn. It's not something that's taught in school. It's not something that's modeled on TV. Most of the most popular TV shows show really dysfunctional People love watching dysfunctional. I hate watching those dysfunctional relationship shows. People love that stuff and so we're not told how to do it. If you left your first marriage and blamed your partner, this is a partner optimization issue. I need to find the right partner. There were probably things that you didn't figure out from the failure of the first marriage because you blamed them. 

29:40 - Mark (Host)
I looked up the top reasons, current top reasons, for divorce. Right Now everybody would say, oh, infidelity, infidelity, infidelity that was number two right let me guess. 

29:50 - Stacey (Host)
Let me guess money 60. 

29:52 - Mark (Host)
No, don't oh I'm not looking actually money. I don't even know if it's on here. 

29:56 - Stacey (Host)
Oh, number three is too much conflict. 

29:58 - Mark (Host)
And arguing number four getting married too young, followed by financial problems okay okay. Substance abuse, domestic violence, lack of support from family, health problems, on and on and on. Number one coming in at a whopping 75%. See if you can guess. I bet you can. It's kind of vague so I'm not sure. 

30:15 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
No, you can't guess, I can't guess what, what people say but I might be able to make sense of what, what they Well, that's why I want to ask you because I need you to make sense of this. 

30:24 - Mark (Host)
The answer was lack of commitment, which is clearly not referring to infidelity, because that was number two. 

30:38 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
I would interpret this similarly to what I was talking about in the beginning of the call. Remember when I said people don't break up because of the problems. They break up because the good isn't good enough for them to have skin in the game to make it work. There you go that. Probably that's how I would interpret Someone saying, yeah, my partner just wasn't committed enough. It could be something along those lines. Is what is what's meant? Yeah? 

31:03 - Mark (Host)
that's my guess that they're just not all in. They know it needs to be done. They're not attentive, all those things. 

31:08 - Stacey (Host)
They're not willing to put in the work, they stop trying. They stop trying and and or the mindset is that it's work, just like you said in the beginning, and not that this is fun. It's my passion, yeah yeah. So I just want to ask, like you just mentioned that you were a software engineer, how did you get from there to this? Because you're like a guru now in this industry and like what was, what was the trajectory there? 

31:33 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
Yeah, so I obviously needed work myself. You know how they say the stuff you're naturally good at. You're not really good at showing other people, but the stuff you actually had to learn the hard way is the stuff that you can help other people with. So that's for sure me. I needed help learning. For the record, who I learned the most from was the women that I was relating with and being willing to listen to them and actually take them seriously. 

31:59 - Stacey (Host)
How can we help you can to get out the word about whatever you want to get the word out. This is something we love to do here. 

32:05 - Ken Blackman (Guest)
You can send people to my website, ken Blackmancom. You can also send people to my blog. There's a lot. If people like what they heard today, they will love reading. We've touched on a lot of things that I've written about in a lot more detail on my blog. So the blog is on mediumcom. I'll give you the link please. 

32:23 - Stacey (Host)
Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes so yeah, great, awesome. 

32:27 - Mark (Host)
I can't thank you enough Incredible, it's been a great conversation. 

32:29 - Stacey (Host)
I've enjoyed every second of this. I have like 10 more sex questions that I'll ask next time. 10 more sex questions. I know it's making Mark a little uncomfortable. That's an understatement. No, I don't mean that. 

32:41 - Mark (Host)
I Appreciate it and thank all of you for watching. Thank you, we'll see you in the next episode. 

32:50 - Stacey (Host)
You're still here. You're still listening. Thanks for listening to the Gurus and Game Changers podcast While you're here. If you enjoyed it, please take a minute to rate this episode and leave us a quick review. We want to know what you thought of the show and what you took from it and how it might have helped you. We read and appreciate every comment. Thanks, See you next week.