'School Was Boring' - 13-Year-Old Dropout Now Fights to Save Endangered Species| Ep 059

➡️ At just 13 years old, Micah Siegel made a bold decision to leave traditional schooling in 7th grade and forge his own path. After seeing the devastating impact of illegal wildlife trafficking, he couldn't sit still in a classroom any longer. Now he's launched Rogue Scholar Academy, written a book on endangered species, and is working to revolutionize both education and conservation.

In this eye-opening conversation, Micah shares his unconventional journey, explains why traditional education wasn't serving his mission, and reveals his ambitious plans to protect endangered species worldwide. From his passion for zebras to his love of video games, discover how this remarkable teen balances being a regular kid while trying to change the world.

Featured in this episode:

🦓 Why Micah left traditional school after 7th grade
🦓 The creation of Rogue Scholar Academy
🦓 His book "The State of the Animals Report"
🦓 The intersection of education reform and wildlife conservation
🦓 What makes a truly great teacher
🦓 How to balance big dreams with being a teenager

➡️ Chapters
0:00 - Introduction
2:24 - Meet Micah Siegel
3:37 - Why Leave Traditional School?
6:27 - The Problems with Current Education
7:57 - What is Rogue Scholar Academy?
9:11 - A Day in Micah's Life
10:14 - Mentors and Inspirations
11:17 - Future Plans and Uncertainty
12:03 - Balancing Teen Life with Big Dreams
13:08 - Passion for Wildlife (The Zebra Story)
14:26 - The Social Cost of Following Your Dreams
15:39 - Making People Care About Conservation
17:12 - The State of the Animals Report
18:19 - Closing Thoughts

⭐️ SUBSCRIBE TO The Gurus And Game Changers Podcast ⭐️
https://www.youtube.com/@GurusAndGameChangers
https://mainlinevideostudio.com/gurus-and-game-changers
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gurus-game-changers/id1705702934

➡️ Connect with our Hosts:
Stacey: https://www.instagram.com/staceymgrant/
Mark: https://www.instagram.com/mark_lubragge_onair/

➡️ More about the guest:  Micah Siegal
Website: Rogue Scholar Academy - https://www.roguescholaracademy.com/
Videos: https://www.roguescholaracademy.com/new-page
Book: The State of the Animals Report - https://www.roguescholaracademy.com/report

➡️  𝗔𝗯𝗼𝘂𝘁 The Gurus And Game Changers Podcast
*THE OPINIONS OF OUR GUESTS ARE NOT OURS*
The Gurus & Game Changers Video Podcast  follows the paths of influential leaders from humble beginnings and/or seemingly insurmountable obstacles to where they are now.

💌 𝗟𝗘𝗧'𝗦 𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗬 𝗜𝗡 𝗧𝗢𝗨𝗖𝗛 💌
Youtube: https://youtube.com/@GurusAndGameChangers?feature=shared
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gurus_and_gamechangers/
Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7HIA2sSNKIflt5KU8zfz9g?si=3f6e5ca2495e490a
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-gurus-game-changers-podcast/id1705702934

➡️ Thanks for watching:
#MicahSiegel #RogueScholarAcademy #EndangeredSpecies #AlternativeEducation #TeenEntrepreneur #WildlifeConservation
#Homeschooling #EducationReform #ChildProdigy
#TeenActivist #DropoutSuccessStory #WildlifeProtection #PangolinTrafficking
#AnimalConservation #Unschooling #SelfDirectedLearning #YoungAuthor
#EnvironmentalActivism #TeenEnvironmentalist #WildlifeDocumentary
#StudentActivism #EducationalInnovation #AnimalRights #ConservationDocumentary #YouthEntrepreneurship

Transcript

00:00 - Stacey (Host)
Mark, could you imagine if your kid came to you when he was 13 years old and asked you if he could quit school? What would you say? 

00:08 - Mark (Host)
He asked me that after second grade. 

00:10 - Stacey (Host)
Right, they say it every day. I would have said nope. 

00:12 - Mark (Host)
Yeah Of course I mean no Right. 

00:15 - Stacey (Host)
School is boring. 

00:16 - Mark (Host)
School is boring. I mean, look our guest today, micah Siegel. He made the point. He made a point School he made the point, he made a point. School is boring. Everything I learned in seventh grade I'm never going to use in my life. You can't test somebody based on a number, all of these things. It's like, okay, you're right, but you got to go to school. That's what a parent was like. But I get it and I do say this to my son. 

00:37 - Stacey (Host)
But you got to go Well, but it's not only that. There's a lot more to it. I think that you know, school is not just about I mean, it's learning social abilities and yeah, but I think Mike is obsessed. He's obsessed with endangered species and he, I think, with the focus that he's putting into it. I would not put it past him to really help out the world Change the world yeah. He could change the world. 

00:59 - Mark (Host)
He's going to be Dr Micah Siegel. 

01:01 - Stacey (Host)
And like you said it, you know, like Bill Gates and yeah, dr. Micah Siegel, and like you said it, you know, like Bill Gates, and, yeah, warren Buffett, warren. 

01:07 - Mark (Host)
Buffett, you're poking me. 

01:07 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Always forget, I always forget their names? 

01:10 - Stacey (Host)
How do you forget their names? I do. They said the number one thing you have to do is focus, singularly focus In order to be successful. 

01:17 - Mark (Host)
Be monomaniacal. So our guest today is Micah Miller. He is 13 and he has the perspective of an adult Sort of the world experience. He's already traveled the world. He's already met with scientists. He's dropped out of school after 7th grade and started his own academy. This is a kid. You just want to listen to. 

01:39 - Stacey (Host)
I'm not entirely sure he wasn't playing video games while talking to us While he is a kid. You guys should watch, keep an eye on his hands. 

01:46 - Mark (Host)
I don't know. He might have had a phone. We're not sure. 

01:48 - Stacey (Host)
I don't think he really loved the conversation. But hey, listen, we did it and he did it and the kid's impressive, very impressive, impressive. 

01:59 - Mark (Host)
He's a very impressive and we're going to check back in with him in a year or two and see what's happening with his own academy called Rogue Scholar Academy, and all the wonderful things he's trying to do right now to help endanger families. He wrote a book. He wrote a book and fix the economy and deal with real estate. There you go. His mind is out there. It's great he's thinking and he wrote a book. Yes, all right, enjoy, micah Siegel. 

02:24 - Stacey (Host)
Hi, I'm Stacey. 

02:28 - Mark (Host)
And I am Mark, and this is the Gurus and Game Changers podcast, so welcome everybody. So we've all heard that kids should be seen and not heard, but I think that definitely depends on the kid, because today's guest, micah Siegel, he's a bit of a wonder kid. So you see, like, after being unhappy with the education he was getting, he's a bit of a wonder kid. So you see, like, after being unhappy with the education he was getting, he actually got permission to drop out of school after seventh grade and start his own school you heard that right Focused on mentorship, focused on meaningful project work. Then, when he learned about the plight of endangered species all across the planet, he traveled the world connecting with scientists, connecting with experts to help them speak out on the issue. And now he's focused on big issues that affect all of us. And wait till you hear what this boy has to say I say boy because he's only 13 years old. 

03:17
So maybe this is the one kid that needs to be heard, and maybe we all need to listen to what Micah has to say. Micah, welcome to the show, buddy. Thank you for joining us. 

03:26 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
It's great to be here. Thank you so much. 

03:28 - Stacey (Host)
Hello Micah. So can you tell us a little bit about your whole decision to leave school and why you did that? 

03:37 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Well, it's sort of obvious. I mean, what's one thing you remember that's actually helpful to you in your day-to-day life? From your middle school or elementary school, I learned how to read. 

03:50 - Mark (Host)
To your point. I agree with you right, there's a lot of call it wasted time right. 

03:56 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
I mean most of the kids. I don't know about your classes, but most of the kids in my modern day classes. The kids were just drooling at the clock like waiting for recess. Wow, that is true, getting to go home. 

04:09 - Stacey (Host)
Do you remember, like, the minute you made that decision, like, how like were you? Was it something that took a while? Or were you sitting there and you're like? 

04:14 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
you know what I'm out of here, the final decision was when I sort of realized that I can do something with my life, sort of when I learned about endangered species and conservation and 2 million pangolins being illegally trafficked and killed every single year. I didn't want to just sit in a classroom table all day and I wanted to actually do something about it. 

04:39 - Mark (Host)
So how did that conversation go? You just walked up to your parents and said hey, I have an idea. I'd like to leave school. 

04:44 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Actually my dad sort of walked it to me, so me and my dad send each other videos that we think are really cool or interesting all the time, and once he sent me one about this tradition in yemen where, when every boy becomes the age of manhoodness or something, they have to get this special dagger that shows that they're a man, they're powerful, they're religious, they're strong and they're ready for the world, and they don't use a dagger at all and the handle is made from rhino horns and it had been killing a lot of rhinos for a very long time. And that's sort of the first thing I learned about endangered species. 

05:29 - Stacey (Host)
Your dad came to you and had the idea about you. Was it being homeschooled? Had you already had the idea for the school you were putting together? 

05:40 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Well, the school I'm putting together is a way for me to get to my passion my interest conservation Because I wasn't going to do any of that. If I'm putting together is a way for me to get to my passion my interest conservation Because I wasn't going to do any of that if I was sitting six hours a day in a classroom. So the conservation and the animal stuff came first and that made me go on to make Rogue Scholars. To give me the opportunity to do that, I was working like three or four hours a day just on conservation stuff. 

06:08 - Stacey (Host)
You kind of became like obsessed with it. Huh, Like you were like. I have to save the animals. I love that. Looking at regular school, what do you think the main challenge is Just the time that the kids spend in school, or is it the teachers? Or is it the curriculum? Or is it all of it? Time that the kids spend in school, or is it? 

06:27 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
the teachers, or is the curriculum, or is it all of it? I don't know. For me it was the time, for me it was just the wasting so much of my life. It was also really boring. It wasn't like a good waste of time, you know. 

06:40 - Stacey (Host)
Was it boring? Because you're super smart. A good waste of time and you were like you knew everything before you had to really learn it. Or was it boring because you're super smart. 

06:48 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
A good waste of time. And you were like you knew everything before you had to really learn it, or was it boring? Well, I'm not good at math. No, I really hate math and I hate a lot of things they teach at school, but those things are all sort of irrelevant to me and to most people. 

06:57 - Mark (Host)
What makes for a good teacher in your eyes? 

07:02 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
The teacher that doesn't push you into a subject. The teacher that lures you in, that presents the case, presents the subject and how it's useful in everyday life and how exciting and interesting it is and then lets you decide if you want to engage in it. That kind of teacher that lets you ask questions, not make you follow rules. 

07:23 - Mark (Host)
Look, I love that as a teacher. I can tell you. You probably echo what every one of my students would say. 

07:28 - Stacey (Host)
So you decided to leave school. And was that? Did the school give you a problem? Did the county give you a problem? I mean, there's certain laws or things that happen like. 

07:38 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
It's actually technically homeschooling, so it works. 

07:41 - Mark (Host)
Yeah, I got away with it so the school you're starting or you're working through, or with right, yours is called Rogue Scholar Academy, right. 

07:50 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Yeah. 

07:50 - Mark (Host)
And you say there, what, what? I'll just ask you what is a rogue scholar? What makes that up? 

07:57 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
A rogue scholar is a person who, similar to me, has real passion, a kid who has real passion and real interest in something. It can be, I don't know, real estate, or stock markets, or it doesn't have to be conservation. It can be literally anything they really love and they really want to revolutionize this industry that they find so interesting. But who has no time for that? Because public school is taking over and teaching them about algebra and stuff that doesn't really affect them nearly as much as other stuff. So Rogue Scholar Academy is just supposed to give access to kids to follow their dreams. 

08:47 - Stacey (Host)
So what does a day look like for you right now? 

08:51 - Mark (Host)
Hey guys, thanks for listening. If you like what you're hearing, please leave us a review, give us a follow, subscribe, all those things. We love it because we read each and every comment and it helps shape the show, so we would appreciate it. 

09:04 - Stacey (Host)
Please, and back to the show. So what does a day look like for you right now? Good question. 

09:11 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
So I'm still doing a bunch of know regular school stuff. It's it's not just whatever you're interested in, but most of it is whatever you're interested, whatever I'm interested in, um. So it gives me time for my podcast and editing work. But in the morning I wake up at like 8 am and the first thing I do because school startsm and the first thing I do because school starts at 10 for me, first thing I do is literally I just watch interesting videos about biology of orcas or economics and Milton Friedman, Because I'm genuinely interested in those kinds of subjects In my free time. I want to watch videos and understand those things. Sometimes I read papers. 

09:58 - Mark (Host)
So on your site you have quotes, you have people that are impactful to you Goggins, Peterson, Einstein, Dawkins. Who are your heroes? Are they your heroes? Who are your heroes? Who are your mentors? Who gets you jazzed? 

10:14 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Goggins is a big one. Grind never ends. Keep pushing, no matter what. I think that's that's very good motivation, um to not just sit around and waste your life and actually get things done and change the world. Is that? 

10:29 - Mark (Host)
somebody you'd like to meet. 

10:31 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely yeah. But one of the quotes really stands out to me that I really like, and that's Richard Dawkins' quote. I forget the words exactly, but it's about indoctrination and instead of teaching your kids and telling your kids what to believe and what's right and what's wrong, give them your case and your argument for what you believe and help them figure out a case that proves you wrong. Give them your case and your argument for what you believe and and help them figure out a case that proves you wrong. 

11:00 - Stacey (Host)
Oh, I love that. So now you're very into economics and endangered species and do you think that's going to be your life's work. Do you see? A lot of times people change their mind. You know multiple times. What do you see yourself doing in like 10 years? 

11:17 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Well, there's lots of uncertainty, especially I'm literally 13 years old. I don't really know what I'm going to be doing in 10 years. But if this works out, if this conservation stuff, if the documentary in June blows up and people like it and National Geographic reaches out to me or answers one of my reachouts to them I've contacted them like 20 times but if something really goes forward, then definitely that's what I'm doing for the rest of my life. But if not, I'll try something else. 

11:50 - Mark (Host)
You think on a much broader level than most 13, most 23, 33, 43 year olds. Wow, I have a question for you and you do a lot of grownup stuff, right, but what is the most kid thing that you do? 

12:03 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
That's easy Video games. I was going to guess that. Yes, what's your? 

12:07 - Stacey (Host)
favorite. Skyrim, that's what I'm playing right now. Skyrim. 

12:11 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Skyrim Are you playing right now, while we're talking. 

12:20 - Mark (Host)
I wish. What are your things hard that maybe your parents just don't? 

12:22 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
get because they're not young now, actually, very, very simple Technology. I have this cousin and he does this 3D modeling, design for video games sort of, and he's really interested in it, but his mom hates it whenever he goes on his phone. He has like 30 minutes a day allowed to go on his computer and do his thing. That's what he loves to do and honestly he could make a lot of money doing that. 

12:55 - Stacey (Host)
He's pretty good at it but his parents think technology is evil so wait, tell me what your favorite animal is, which which I know you love them all. Don't tell me. I know you're gonna say I love all the endangered species, but is there? 

13:08 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
one. Don't tell the animal kingdom or any of my animal friends, okay it's our secret don't tell my bird but pet bird, by the way. But I like zebras a lot. Why, uh, I don't know. They're sort of like horses but they're not domesticatable. Um, I like undomesticatable animals for some reason nice and I like their stripes a lot. Their stripes are designed to mesmerize lions and stuff so that they don't know what they're looking at, especially when they're in big herds. They don't know like a single creature to attack. 

13:46 - Stacey (Host)
So when a lion is looking at a bunch of zebras, they see Well, I'm not exactly sure. 

13:51 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
This is from a video I watched like three years ago. That may or may not be true, but apparently when they're in big herds and the lions don't have amazing eyesight, they look over and they don't see like I don't know 30 little zebras. They see like one big, black and white Crazy right. 

14:15 - Stacey (Host)
That's cool, Even if it's not true. I love it. 

14:17 - Mark (Host)
I think it probably is it makes such sense. 

14:20 - Stacey (Host)
Do you hang out with a lot of friends, like, do you have a lot of buddies or do you mostly like to do your thing? 

14:26 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
I wish I mean that's sort of the problem with this. I wish I mean that's sort of the problem with this With pursuing your dreams. You sort of work and you know, in this case animal conservation takes over friends and parties. So you have work to do. 

14:42 - Stacey (Host)
Yeah, that makes sense. You got to find a friend who loves to do that too, so you guys can do it together. But I think it's just a sacrifice of success and you're really close to your dad, so like is this something that your dad was like into as well, Like endangered species, Like you guys? You guys can talk about it right. 

15:01 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
So my mom, my brother and I are vegetarian and my dad's vegan, so we all sort of care. 

15:09 - Stacey (Host)
Of course Sure yeah. 

15:11 - Mark (Host)
What would you say to somebody who, I don't want to say, doesn't care about endangered species? Because I think we all do, we all understand it's important, but there are many poachers. 

15:21 - Stacey (Host)
Yeah, the poachers don't care, there's them. 

15:23 - Mark (Host)
Um, but we're also not activists, right? At least I'm not. I'm not out there trying to stop that. That's not an issue that I am focused on, right? What would you say to get people excited about being an activist for this cause? How would you convince them? 

15:39 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Honestly, you can just show them a horrendous video of a dog fight or something Like you know there's. There's this thing called cockfighting, where they get roosters and they put razor blades on their feet and make them kill each other. You can just show people like 30 seconds of horrendous, absolutely like oh my God, like eye-blindingly terrific, horrible, horrible, horrible stuff, and they'll go. Oh my God, this has to stop. I think we could all get excited over the cockfighting and say, oh my God, that horrible, horrible stuff, and they'll go. Oh my God, this has to stop. 

16:12 - Mark (Host)
I think we could all get excited over the cockfighting and say, oh my God, that's horrible. 

16:15 - Stacey (Host)
And the dogfighting. Oh my God, that's horrible. 

16:17 - Mark (Host)
Excited in a disgusted way, yeah Right right, exactly Excited to stand up and say something about it. You have a passion. How do you get that passion into other people? What would you tell somebody? 

16:28 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Oh no, I show them the people on my podcast that are actually doing great work and that they can be like those people. 

16:35 - Mark (Host)
Love it. 

16:35 - Stacey (Host)
Well, micah. So what's next for you? What else is on the docket? 

16:39 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Well, I'm actually having a channel change around. Oh, I'm still doing interviews, but I'm putting more work into it and I'm also making like 10 minute very in-depth explanation videos of certain little, very specific areas of conservation. 

16:59 - Stacey (Host)
You're very real, you're very authentic, and that's that's really important. I think you're doing such a great job, so how can we help you and get other people invested in what you're doing? What's the best way to reach you and get other people invested in what you're doing. 

17:12 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
What's the best way to reach you? My book, my book, is the greatest achievement I've ever done by far. Not even getting a $10,000 grant by Tyler Cowen tops this. My book really was so much work. It was for about half a year, every single day, three hours a day writing. It just came out amazing. 

17:33 - Stacey (Host)
What's the? 

17:33 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
book. What's the title? It's called the State of the Animals Report. I've been ordering some copies, giving it to friends. It's sort of like a rundown everything you need to know about endangered species conservation for the top ten most important species. So we've got rhinos, we've got elephants, penguins, ringtans, sharks, polar bears, a bunch of other stuff. 

17:56 - Mark (Host)
Congrats on the book that's awesome. 

17:58 - Stacey (Host)
That's a lot of work. 

18:00 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
And you have a website. Rogue Scholar Academy is. Micah thank you for taking time. 

18:04 - Stacey (Host)
I don't know if you want to bring your dad back in or whatever, but we appreciate spending time. 

18:09 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
You can keep him out, keep dad back in or whatever, but we appreciate it. 

18:12 - Mark (Host)
You can keep them out. Keep them out, I love it. Thank you so much. Good luck with everything and go get them. 

18:18 - Stacey (Host)
Stay in touch, I can't wait to follow your story. 

18:19 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Thank you so much, guys. Thanks, Micah. 

18:21 - Mark (Host)
Take care. 

18:21 - Micah Siegal (Guest)
Bye. 

18:29 - Stacey (Host)
You're still here. You're still listening. Thanks for listening to the Gurus and Game Changers podcast While you're here. If you enjoyed it, please take a minute to rate this episode and leave us a quick review. We want to know what you thought of the show and what you took from it and how it might have helped you. We read and appreciate every comment. Thanks, See you next week.