Successful People CHASE Rejection | The 'Go For No' Method | Ep 064

➡️ Ever wonder why some people seem immune to rejection while others are paralyzed by it? Best-selling author of "Go For No: Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There'" Andrea Waltz reveals the counter-intuitive secret that transformed her life and countless others: actively pursuing rejection. In this game-changing conversation, discover how embracing "no" could be the key to unlocking your next level of success.

This episode isn't just for salespeople - it's for anyone who's ever held back from asking for what they want. Whether you're job hunting, building a business, or pursuing personal goals, Andrea's insights will transform how you think about rejection forever.

🔥 Key Highlights:
🔥 The surprising reason top performers actively seek rejection
🔥 How one salesperson used this method to become #1 in his company in just 6 months
🔥 Why your comfort zone might be secretly sabotaging your success
🔥 The psychology behind making rejection fun (yes, really!)
🔥 A practical framework for turning "no" into your greatest asset

➡️ Chapters
00:00 - Introduction: The Fear of "No"
02:33 - The Mindset Shift That Changes Everything
04:09 - Why "Go For No" Seems Counterintuitive
06:25 - Making Rejection Fun: The Jelly Bean Jar Method
08:56 - The New Model of Success vs. Failure
13:22 - The Origin Story: From Sales Manager to "No" Expert
15:37 - Why Even Successful People Need More Rejection
17:44 - The Perfect Framework for Asking
19:09 - From Zero to Hero: Ray Higdon's 20 No's a Day Challenge
22:58 - When to Persist vs. When to Pivot
27:33 - "To Sell is to Serve": The Ethical Framework
31:13 - Understanding Your "NQ" (No Quotient)
34:13 - What's Next: The Future of "Go For No"

➡️ In this inspiring episode of Gurus and Game Changers, meet Andrea Waltz, a professional speaker, co-author of multiple business fables including the #1 best-selling title, Go for No! Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There. She is wildly passionate about teaching audiences how they can overcome fear of failure and rejection and reprogram how they think about the word "No!".

📚 Featured Books: https://shop.goforno.com/
📚 Go For No: Yes is the Destination, No is How You Get There
📚 Go for No! for Network Marketing
📚 The Go for No! Leader: How to Coach, Develop, and Encourage Go for No! Behaviors to Improve Team Performance
📚 The Fear Factory
📚 When They Say No: The Definitive Guide for Handling Rejection in Sales
📚 Million Dollar Book Formula: How to Write a Short Book That Will Sell Forever

📲 Connect with Andrea Waltz:
Website: https://www.goforno.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/goforno/
LinkedIn: Andrea Waltz

⭐️ Subscribe for More Transformational Stories: www.youtube.com/@UCsRyuQWlLAYzM4IyJlF2IWQ 

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Transcript

00:02 - Mark (Host)
How comfortable are you hearing no? 

00:05 - Stacey (Host)
I hear no a lot. 

00:06 - Mark (Host)
Do you? I hear no Business. I hear no tons, because I'm You're out prospecting to try to get people. Yeah. 

00:13 - Stacey (Host)
I'm in the business of trying to sell my business, sell the studio, sell the podcast. 

00:18 - Mark (Host)
Right. So I mean you're comfortable with a no. 

00:21 - Stacey (Host)
I am. I don't love no. No, who doesn't? I don't think anyone loves no. Yeah, how about you? 

00:26 - Mark (Host)
um, I don't love no, but I know it's a reality. Yeah, but today's guest, andrew waltz, is saying not only is it a reality, it's something you need to shoot for, because without all the no's, you're never going to get the yes right. 

00:36 - Stacey (Host)
She has a thing called no goals, and that doesn't mean that you have no goals you should have no goals collect X amount of goals. 

00:44 - Mark (Host)
X amount of no's yes and learn from it. 

00:47 - Stacey (Host)
And people really resonate with this theory. She's written, I think, about four books. 

00:52 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Some of them workbooks. 

00:54 - Stacey (Host)
but her book Go For no is up there in the top 10 of sales books. Yeah Best selling. 

00:59 - Mark (Host)
Right and it's. There's a framework here. Right there's. We've seen. You're maybe familiar with the concept of yeah, you're going to get a no to get to a yes. It's sort of like an old concept, but they have a new framework on this that will help you get through the anxiety. 

01:14 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
I guess Is that the word yeah. 

01:16 - Mark (Host)
Of going for it, the discomfort, the fear, all those things of going for it because you have to expect the no. And then the people who are not getting those because they're in their comfort zones, they're not even trying to get the nose, not that they're afraid of it, and this probably applies to a lot of people don't even realize it applies to them. I mean, I kind of had a little revelation while we're thinking like I don't get a lot of nose, but maybe that's because I'm not pushing hard enough. You're not getting out of your comfort zone I'm not. 

01:40 - Stacey (Host)
I'm pretty comfortable. 

01:44 - Mark (Host)
And it's not like you know, the no's don't bother you, but you're not getting them anyway. So what's the point? 

01:49 - Stacey (Host)
I mean these guys speak to huge Fortune 50 companies about this theory. This is a theory that has resonated worldwide. And they're killing it and I can't believe she came on the podcast to talk to you guys about it. So really, and you can apply it to personal life as well Everything, how many times do you go for no with? 

02:07 - Mark (Host)
your husband or your kids Right? So usually you avoid the conversation where you think it's going to be a no right, exactly Right. And she's saying no, don't avoid that conversation. 

02:15 - Stacey (Host)
Not anymore, not today. 

02:17 - Mark (Host)
Not well, maybe not for you. 

02:18 - Stacey (Host)
Not for me. I'm going to go for no when I get home. 

02:28 - Mark (Host)
Go for no. I'm going to get a no whether I go for it or not. I'm kidding, you're going to love Andrea Waltz. 

02:31 - Stacey (Host)
She's got great energy, she's got great experience and a really good expertise. 

02:33 - Mark (Host)
Hi, I'm Stacey and I am Mark, and this is the Gurus and Game Changers podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. So we've all heard those famous quotes, those famous sayings about going for it right. One is Wayne Gretzky. Everybody knows, you know you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And that's great advice, it's a great reminder, but it doesn't explain why. Why are we not taking those shots? What are we so afraid of? Is it rejection? Are we afraid of hearing no? Why? 

03:00
are we so afraid of hearing no that it stops us from even trying. Today's guest, andrea Waltz, is an expert on no. She's going to tell you that hearing no is the best thing that can happen to you. And, even better, she wants you to try to hear no, because she's an expert who knows that you collect them and they turn into a yes. There's benefits along the way. So her website's called Go For no. Her book is called Go For no. She wants you to go for no. Today's episode is a mindset shift, so hopefully the next time you have that opportunity, you're going to take that shot, even if you know it might miss, because you will still benefit. So, andrea, welcome to the show, welcome to Gurus and Game Changers. Thank you for joining us. 

03:43 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Guys, I'm so excited to be with you. Thank you. 

03:47 - Stacey (Host)
We're excited to have you here and congratulations on all the success with Go4Know. The book is a best-selling book. 

03:53 - Mark (Host)
Amazing. 

03:55 - Stacey (Host)
And I know you guys just came out with a brand-new book too, which is when they Say no and you've got other books. 

04:09 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
well, that's a tiny bit negative, but I know that's not what you're going to say. Well, we've created a marketing challenge for ourselves, because it does seem like a negative title. I mean, who wants to go for no? Everybody wants to go for yes. They want to get yes, and this is where the subtitle of our book is so important, which is yes is the destination, but no is how you get there. And what we've discovered is that yes and no are the really opposite sides of the same coin, that if you want more yeses in your life, you need to be willing to hear more no's. You can't have more of one without the other, and so go for no is all about how to embrace rejection, how to embrace failure if you will hearing no in order to get to whatever goal that you are trying to reach. 

04:55 - Stacey (Host)
And I know you even have said, like in some of the talks I've watched, that getting a no can be fun. But I, you know, so I know, like I've been a salesperson for a long time and I know you have to have a certain amount of no's before you get to a yes. So that's kind of where my mindset is. But how can getting a no be fun? 

05:12 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Yeah, I know this is a hard one and there are listen, there are painful rejections out there. 

05:19
Don't get me wrong. 

05:19
I mean we've all had some devastating losses, some things that we thought for sure were going to be yeses and turn out to be no's, and that's just. 

05:28
It's just a fact of life. But if you are in sales or business of any kind, or trying to raise money or doing something where you've got to face multiple rejections, then one of the things that we encourage people to do is gamify it like, turn it into a game, set a goal for the number of no's you're going to hear in a given day or a given week. So you might say like all right, we're going to try to get 20 no's this week and every time we get a no we'll put, you know, a jelly bean into a jar, and the goal is like over a year, let's see if we can fill the jar with jelly beans. Now the fun part about that is that you start to kind of detach from the process and you do make it a game and you don't take it so seriously and it becomes about filling the jar with jelly beans and not about worrying so much about the rejection and taking it personally and all the stuff that we do. 

06:25 - Mark (Host)
It was a great exercise to even and that's the point Like you're still. You're benefiting from trying, even if you know you're going to get a no, because you're honing the craft, you're honing the ask, you're honing whatever it is that's going to get you closer to yes. 

06:37 - Stacey (Host)
Is that what it is? Is that the crux of it? 

06:40 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Exactly no-transcript hearing that no. Also, it gives you data and one of the things that I see that people do is just, we all do it. It's a natural thing. We try something, it doesn't work and we immediately say, well, I got a no to that, so I'm not going to go down that path. It doesn't work. But you've got to get enough data, you've got to collect enough responses, you've got to get enough no's to say, okay, this approach, the way I'm doing it, doesn't work, so let me try another approach. You've got to get the statistics, you've got to get the numbers in your favor. 

07:53 - Mark (Host)
Yeah, oh, I love that. What about the people, though, that there's plenty of people watching who say, yes, I get it. I get that? Going for no helps, but I can't. 

08:06 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
It makes me uncomfortable. What is the saying? You know it's very simple but it's not necessarily easy. The best thing I can tell people is we've got this model in our book Go For no and it's a model for failure and success. And there's the old model and there's the new model and in the old model and it's the model that we have all been taught and trained. We all get kind of taught this model where we're in the middle failure, rejection, hearing the word no is on one side, success, yes is on the other side. Everything that we want to achieve and we think our mission in life is to do everything within our power to avoid no, don't get rejected and to seek the success. But really there's a new model that you have to always keep in mind and that is that really you're on the far side. The failure, rejection, the no's are in the middle, and the success and the yes's are on the other side. 

08:56
And so one of the things that I teach people and I do these go for no 21 day challenges. I did a go for no seven day ask your, ask off challenge. I tell people you're not trying to get a yes, I know we we talked in the opening about yes is the destination, but you've got to embrace that new model of getting no in order to get to yes. And so if you are not failing, if you are not hearing no, then you're not doing it right. And so when I hear somebody say I just can't do it, I say to them there's nothing you need to do. You're still operating on the old yes paradigm. You're still operating on the perfectionistic paradigm of well, I've got to get a yes, right, I've got to. This has to work. 

09:47
And we're saying no, it doesn't. You need to practice your skill of asking. You need to do it, and if you fall on your face, you will stand up, you'll continue on. It's just like when we were kids learning to ride a bike. There's no way to do it without falling over. If you had training wheels, yay. But most of us right, we tipped over and we didn't care how foolish. We looked in front of other kids who were also riding their bikes. Because we just had this goal, we had this mission, like we had to make this happen. And so when people say, like I just can't do it, I say stop living in a perfectionistic. I need to prove myself world and start being willing to fail. 

10:30 - Stacey (Host)
That's. That's good, but you weren't always in a go for no mentality, right? I know you tell the story of how, when you met your husband, Richard, who's also your partner in the business, you were a sales manager. And what was the moment when you first you were a sales manager? And what was the moment when you first thought of this whole concept? How did that happen? 

10:54 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Yeah. So he told me a story one day and it's the go for no story. It's also in the book and it's really simple. He was selling suits for a living. The district manager came in to see how he was doing. Richard, my husband was a terrible salesman. He was failing, failing miserably, and he ended up having this great sale in front of his sales manager. His sales manager watched this great sale and the customer left. And then Harold, the district manager, asked Richard a question that would change the course of his life. And he said, richard, out of curiosity, what did that customer say no to? And Richard just had this great sale. He sold this guy a suit and a sport coat and shirts and slacks and this wholesale. And back in the day this was like $1,100, which would be like $5,000 today. And yeah, so he had this great sale. And he said Harold, that customer didn't say no to anything. Everything I laid in front of that man he purchased. And then Harold asked him the really important question, which was then how did you know he was done? 

11:52 - Stacey (Host)
Right. 

11:53 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Which and how. Richard knew he was done in that moment and this, of course, is from a sales standpoint, but it's, it's. He knew he was done because nobody had ever spent that much. It was like time to take that customer, ring him up, get him out of the store. So he didn't change his mind. 

12:17
Exactly, and he had his own. Richard had his own mental spending limit, and so, from a sales standpoint, we all tend to have our own mental spending limit. But you guys, I have to tell you that when he told me this story, I thought that I was a superstar salesperson and I didn't think I had a problem with rejection. I didn't think I had any fear of the word no. 

12:31
I don't care. And then I realized that I really worked very hard to not hear no, that I wouldn't ask questions where I thought I might get a no, or I would prejudge somebody or I would make assumptions about what they might do or spend or decide. And what I've come to understand now of teaching this for 25 years is we all do that right In our head. We see something that maybe we want. Maybe we're on an airplane and we see, like this empty seat in first class and we think like, just ask, just ask the flight attendant. Ask to move right. It's so simple, just one question. And we think like no, who are attendant? Ask to move right. It's so simple, just just one question. And we think like no, who are we to ask? Why is she going to give it to us? Why? You know we can't do that, and so we we oftentimes give ourselves the no. 

13:22
And so when I heard this story now 25 years ago, I just fell in love with this concept. I was just like I love this, I'm all over this, I want to, I want to, I want to do it, and I did it in my job. We quit our corporate jobs and launched our own company and I use Go4No every day and I just believe that most of us struggle with this just because of how we're brought up and and how we're raised with the models in our head and everything. But it's so important to just give yourself the gift of asking instead of giving yourself a no. 

13:57 - Mark (Host)
Yeah, that's an interesting point. I think about the no. There are people that are failing because they're not asking or going for no. Then there are people that are successful that are still not going for no. I hadn't really thought about that. 

14:12 - Stacey (Host)
They're successful and they're avoiding the no. How much more successful could you be Right, right right right. 

14:17 - Mark (Host)
You're not pushing far enough, you're not going for no. So really you should never stop right Going for no. 

14:23 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
You should never stop. I mean, listen, there's a couple people on the planet who don't hear no, like the president and Beyonce, maybe those two. You know they. No one ever tells them no. There's a few people and but the rest of us, if you're, if you're always trying to grow, if you're always trying to do something new, to step outside your comfort zone, you're always going to have somebody say no, you can't do that, or no, we don't want you to do this, and so it is something that we all have to practice and work on, and that's really what it is. It's like a practice. 

15:00
One of the things I teach people is create a no awareness. Look around and say to yourself how many times do I really ask for the things I want in business and life? Do I really ever hear the word no? And if I don't, why? And usually it's because you're not asking, you're talking yourself out of it. You're making those assumptions to protect yourself, like I did for a good part of my young life, and what I've come to understand is when you go for no, that's how you start to get more yeses. That's how you attract those yeses into your life it's like a total reframing. 

15:37 - Stacey (Host)
You know it's a total reframing, so if you're expecting a no, you're not going to be disappointed. 

15:42 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
If someone says no or yes, right yeah, and and here's the thing it's like it's sometimes people get a little nervous. They think I'm suggesting that we want to know, that we're secretly hoping, wishing, praying for no, and of course that's crazy. That is not the case. We want yes, but so you're, you don't have to expect to know, but you do have to accept a no as part of the process of going after your dreams, achieving your goals, and so that's. The big difference is just that acceptance of it as part of the process, instead of feeling somehow that you did something wrong. And the people pleasers among us have those faulty beliefs about rejection, and so you know, we, we tend to struggle with that and not ask as much. 

16:32 - Mark (Host)
But is there a framework for people as sort of a mental exercise they can go through to get themselves ready to ask when they know they're probably going to get a? No, because that is a difficult personal hurdle for people. 

16:44 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
It is, and one of the things that I've come to study and this was really over the last couple of years and especially when I did the Ask your Ask Off Challenge was helping people formulate and create some guardrails for how they ask. And one of the things that I gleaned from in part from a book called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss Love that book from, in part from a book called never split the difference by Chris Voss. 

17:09
Of that book. It's a great book, and some other materials out there rejection proof by Josh Yang who did a hundred day rejection therapy project, which was super cool. He got rejected for different things once a day for a hundred days, just like a mental health project. It was really. It was really fun and he wrote a great book about it. 

17:29
Is you need to have the guardrails? And I will say this to start off is frame your question in such a way that people feel safe, I guess, to to tell you no, so you could start off. And in fact, this kind of comes from a book called Exactly what to Say by Phil M Jones. You know he says he calls this a rejection-free statement. He says, like I could say you know, mark and Stacey, this might not be for you, but I really think that you should have Richard and I back on the show in six months Now in my asking, asking that I've framed it in such a way that I've kind of said to you it may already be a no, and so for the people out there who struggle with looking pushy or not wanting to come across as aggressive when you frame questions. In certain ways, it makes it a lot more comfortable, and that's one of the ways to do that. 

18:29 - Mark (Host)
That's why. 

18:30 - Stacey (Host)
Awesome. So you've been doing this for 25 years, so you and I've seen some of the videos of you in front of thousands of people and from huge companies. What is one of the most dramatic transformations you've seen as a result of this training that you've done? 

18:47 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Gosh, that's such a great question. I will say this I really, who has become a really good friend of mine, ray. 

18:54 - Mark (Host)
Hey guys, thanks for listening. If you like what you're hearing, please leave us a review, give us a follow, subscribe, subscribe all those things, all those things. We love it because we read each and every comment and it helps shape the show, so we would appreciate it. 

19:07 - Stacey (Host)
Please, and back to the show. 

19:09 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
So we would appreciate it, please. And back to the show. Ray Higdon went out and he he needed success. He was desperate and he just joined a company. He was in sales and he decided that he was going to go out and get 20 nos a day and rain or shine. He was just going to ask 20 people a day if they were interested in taking a look at what he was doing at this business he was in. 

19:32
He just detached. He didn't care about anything, he wasn't worried about the rejection, he wasn't worried about where he was, who he was asking. He just said I'm just going to get 20 nos a day and within six months he became the number one income earner in that company. He ended up launching his own eventually his own training and marketing company and has far surpassed us in just in terms of influence and success. I mean, he's had multi bestselling books and speaks to thousands and thousands of people over the years and he credits in part just the idea that he just used go for no without question, without fail. Most people can't do 20 no's a day, just warning spoiler alert. 

20:24 - Stacey (Host)
It's tough, that's a toughie. You think it? 

20:26 - Mark (Host)
just shortened his timeline. He compressed his timeline of success. 

20:30 - Stacey (Host)
Yeah, it was like a bolus of no. 

20:33 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Yes, yes, a good medical term. I like that. Yes, exactly that is what I think it did, right, I mean, one of the things we like to say is you know, fail fast. So, the faster you go, the faster you collect, no's the faster you're going to get to yes. 

20:49 - Mark (Host)
Like we're in an age where we don't care, if somebody says no, like we've been there, we've done that. 

20:53
I get it, it's not a big deal, but we're at an age where we're probably set in our ways and in our comfort zone and less likely to go for no for that reason. So either way, we're wrong, right, we're hurting ourselves, which is an interesting thought. I hadn't thought of that. I was thinking more like I don't care, say no, I don't care. But then I'm like well, how often am I actually asking To your point, how often, in my comfort zone, am I actually stepping out and saying hey, how about this and are most people saying yes to you anyway because of who you are Like? 

21:22 - Stacey (Host)
how many people say no? A lot Step one. So there's a lot of success that we've seen and you've seen with the go for no, but have you ever had like a challenging moment, either you trying to do the go for no or someone that you've worked with trying to use this system? 

21:43 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Oh, absolutely. I mean in general. I will tell you in general, without giving a specific person, there are, there are people who, who consume everything I have ever produced. Right, they've read the books multiple times, they've, they've taken our court, like everything that we produce, and still it's a hurdle. And I think that sometimes there are issues around, maybe some kind of psychological barrier or whatever that we just can't overcome. So that's one thing, and I think, ultimately, people have to address those issues because, let's face it, I mean we all get taught and trained, like I was saying earlier, in our society to not fail, to not get rejected. But there's some people who have had some significant trauma, and we all have significant trauma around rejection, right, the rejection is very it's deeply ingrained and they have some things that are holding them back that this strategy just can't overcome. So there's certainly that, and I think one other issue that I see a lot is there's just this idea of quitting. 

22:58
I mean, a big part of go for no is persisting. You need to persist, you need to ask again and again, oftentimes, to get that yes, sometimes it's the same person, you come back in a different way, sometimes it's different people, but persistence is a huge issue, and so when you are, when you talk about persistence as an issue, you also have the issue of OK, but how long should you persist? I mean, at what point should you just give up and say this is not going to work? And that is also dicey, because it's certainly not for me to say so. One of the things that we've kind of helped people work through is all right, what are the questions that you can ask and the things that you can kind of use to assess whether you've just heard so many no's and you're done? 

23:44 - Stacey (Host)
I love that. What are those tools and you're done? I love that. What are those tools, do you? Yeah, so maybe a couple of them. 

23:51 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Yeah, a couple of them. I mean one of them is you got to play the success out in your mind and say, if I finally got the yes, would I still be happy that this happened and am I still, like, super committed to this? The other thing that I've seen people do I've read stories of writers, and even Richard and myself we had a dream of being screenwriters in Hollywood. We gave ourselves about 18 months to do that. We said we're going to go for no to get an agent. We did. We got an agent. We were going to go for no in meetings. We were going to go for no to get the script sold with the help of our agent. And after 18 months of just beating our head against the wall which is completely required we said, okay, we're done. Like that was what we were willing to give in terms of time, effort and energy and we're happy with that and we're willing to let it go. Go for no. 

24:47
We took ten years for it to finally. We languished. This book took ten years between from the time that we published it to the time it finally hit number one on Amazon sales and selling list. Really, and yeah, and we wanted to quit multiple times, but we never gave up on go for no. We never, never, we never said like we're not doing this book, or it's 12 more months, or it's this number of no's. We just kept plowing on. So I think it's different from everybody and you just have to look and say, um, what, how much, how much more energy am I willing to put in and do I have a timeframe? That that that I'm willing to accept. 

25:30 - Mark (Host)
That's awesome. You're a genuinely positive at least you appear to be a genuinely positive person who has a very optimistic approach, which gives you the energy to be all in for 10 years. That's a lot to ask right for somebody. Why are you so positive? What is it about you? Was there something? Were you always this way? Did you overcome something? 

25:54 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Um, you know, I guess I'm, I guess I've always been a real positive person and I just I love this message. I love it because I see the reframe that people get, that when we can talk about this concept whether I'm on stage for an hour and and come off, and somebody will come up to me and say I literally have never thought of it this way my whole mindset has changed. I just absolutely love it. I'm addicted to that. So I just that's what. Every day I get up and I say who can I help with this message? 

26:32 - Mark (Host)
Taking it in a scenario, in a specific scenario. Let's say job hunting, You're in an interview, you want the job is go for. No, as simple as I want this job, I'd like you to offer it to me, or is there? Is it more nuanced? What does it look like in a situation like that? 

26:49 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
One of the things I always tell people is whatever you're feeling inside, just speak it, just call it out so you might say like I know this is gonna sound maybe forward and maybe and I hope I'm not coming across as overly aggressive but I really want this job and I want you to know it and if there's any way that I can get it, I just want you to know how much I would like this job and are you willing to hire me today? And so it's like you take whatever's going on in your head when you speak it. It kind of takes the pressure off of the situation and I think it just allows you to be honest and human. I believe that goes a long way. 

27:33 - Stacey (Host)
Yeah, that's fantastic. 

27:35 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
One of our mantras is to sell is to serve, so you never go for no in a way that is pushy and aggressive, to where you're pushing something on somebody that they don't want or need. But you oftentimes need to be an advocate for that person, because they don't know what they don't know, and so it's always to be done in the customer's or the other person's best interest when you are going for no. 

28:02 - Mark (Host)
That's beautiful, yeah to serve. I like that. To sell is to serve. That's beautiful. It might too. 

28:07 - Stacey (Host)
For people who aren't salespeople. Have you seen this go for no work outside of sales or marketing or however Like what's an example of that? 

28:16 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
In your personal life. To me it's like it's an example of that in your personal life. It to me it's like it's almost, uh, about communication. It's about, instead of wanting your partner to mind read which, uh, I don't know about you, I I love when my husband can read my mind, except that he's terrible at it. So. So instead I've learned okay, if I want to do something, instead of hinting or whatever, go for no and say hey, are you up for going to Japanese food tonight? You know, would you take me to Japanese food tonight? Get a yes, get a no, but at least ask. 

28:50 - Stacey (Host)
What's the most surprising place or industry that you've seen go for no work? 

28:55 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Anybody in the arts dancers, actors, comedians just tons and tons of rejection. So that was a particular fun one for me. 

29:06 - Mark (Host)
Is there a way to like callous your mind to no, because it will wear you down? I don't care who you are If you're getting no, no, no, no, no. Is it just exposure that will callous you to it to build up a tolerance? 

29:18 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
So a big part of it is just exposure because, if you think about it, we don't typically ask all that much. We, we steer away from no, we avoid having those opportunities for rejection because of how we interpret it and all of those things. So that is a big part of it. But also I think it is okay to rest and it is okay to step back and especially when you get a big no, like you get a no that you really wanted to be a yes and we've all been there, and that rest isn't quitting that pause, that digestion of okay, I need to reframe how my future is going to look, based on the fact that I didn't get the answer that I wanted. 

30:03
And so in our book Stacey, you mentioned this, we wrote this book when they Say no, and one of the key things, my favorite lesson in that book, is about changing your state when you get a no, and that means to watch a funny video, watch funny movies, listen to uplifting music, get out and walk. You've got to make sure that you're taking good care of yourself mentally and emotionally so that not only can you face that rejection in a positive, proactive, you know, healthy way, but when you do get a lot of them. When it does start to wear you down, you know what to do next, which is okay. I need to take a break and I need to take care of myself mentally and emotionally and physically. Get some exercise or something, so that you're not stewing in that rejection. 

31:02 - Stacey (Host)
Dance party. 

31:03 - Mark (Host)
Dance party. Dance party that was an idea. We both took the test on your website. 

31:07 - Stacey (Host)
We both took the test on the website, Mark and I. I think that's so cool. Like, how did you guys come up with that? 

31:13 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Well, I, you know, we've had that for a long time and we just we just finally recrafted it. But we've had had that for a long time and we just we just finally recrafted it. But we've had an assessment for a long time and we, we just thought that it would be a fun thing, because everybody hears about IQ intelligence quotient. We all want to measure our IQ. What is that number? And then there's EQ, which is your emotional intelligence. 

31:36
But for us, the sweet spot is your NQ, right, it's your no quotient. It's the number of times you're willing to hear no and keep going. It's your thoughts and your feelings around rejection and around failure. And so, for us, creating that assessment was just an opportunity to get people thinking about how they respond in certain situations and do they have a high no quotient? Are they really good at at dealing with no and do they proactively go for it? Some people are in the middle and then we have some people who, who are low, who just they, they are operating kind of on that old model of failure and success. 

32:18 - Stacey (Host)
I thought it was brilliant, because then you take the test and you get your results and it comes to you in your email. So you get emails, we get our results and then you explain. You know, I was a moderate. 

32:31 - Mark (Host)
You're a moderate. 

32:33 - Stacey (Host)
I thought my no quotient was higher than that. That was surprising to me. I loved the story that Richard told about the little girl who wrote the book that you guys bought the rights to. Do you want to tell that story? 

32:45 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. So one of the things that we have in our book is we talk about how kids are so great here at hearing no and how they will ask their parents for cookies in the grocery store. Right, Mommy, can I have a cookie? No, Mommy, can I have a cookie? No. And then finally the parent gives up, rips open the bag and hands their child a cookie. And we were at a speaking engagement. A really good friend of ours said I have to read you my book that my daughter Hadley created and it was like your typical kids project. It was something that she did in school. It was literally this you know one page kind of book. She illustrated it and it was called. One Day I Asked my Daddy for a Cookie. Nice, and the whole book is the inside is. I asked my daddy for a cookie, he said no. I asked for a cookie, he said no. I asked for a cookie, he said no, I asked for a cookie, for a cookie he said yes that was the whole, the end, the end, the whole story. 

33:42
So we were really good friends with them and and I I will never forget we were sitting at their, in their backyard in studio city. Hadley was by this time like eight, eight or nine and we said, hadley, we love your book. We said, here's a hundred dollars, we just bought the rights to it, so we own it. Now we have used that book everywhere. So so, yes, we have. We have exploited this poor child, probably over a lot more money than we gave her. So, oh my gosh, it's awesome. 

34:09 - Mark (Host)
That's a great story. 

34:10 - Stacey (Host)
So what is next for you and Richard? 

34:13 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Well, I am so excited that you guys just asked that, because this is something that we have been dragging our feet on, and I blame Richard, of course, because he's really the creative person of the two of us. Yeah, we're writing a sequel to the original book. The original book is a fable, it's a story, and we are coming back 25 years later and we're catching up with our main character, and now it's his daughter who needs to learn how to go. 

34:36 - Stacey (Host)
For now, Love it Amazing. So when will that be ready to get in the market? I hope not. 

34:44 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Definitely 2025, mid-2025, for sure. 

34:48 - Stacey (Host)
Awesome, I can't wait. That's awesome, because when they say no, just came out right. 

34:53 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Yeah, so that was a yeah that came out this year. I guess I forget yeah, look at you guys. 

34:58 - Stacey (Host)
You're prolific Pumping them out, now Pumping it out. How else can we help you get the word out? 

35:05 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
Oh well, just being on the show is so much fun. You asked amazing questions. I was really put to the test, and so I really appreciate that, because this is so helpful to me that I was able to really get deep into some of this and talk about the quiz, get people to take the assessment, that's great. 

35:26 - Stacey (Host)
Well, you've been so helpful to our audience too, and to me I am definitely reading this book. 

35:31 - Mark (Host)
I'm definitely rethinking my framework, thinking that I'm spending too much time in my comfort zone and not going for no, even though I think I am, I may not be doing it enough. 

35:38 - Stacey (Host)
Well, for this podcast even. Go for no in terms of finding sponsorships, so I really appreciate the fact that you came on and brought this to our awareness. 

35:47 - Mark (Host)
We're going to do a check-in, we're going to do a sequel and we're going to apply all your concepts and then we're going to say no to that. 

35:58 - Stacey (Host)
That's cool. 

35:59 - Andrea Waltz (Guest)
That's a good idea, very good, so I was going for no to that. 

36:03 - Mark (Host)
There you go it all worked. Thank you so much for coming on. 

36:07 - Stacey (Host)
This has been incredible. You're still here. You're still listening. Thanks for listening to the Gurus and Game Changers podcast While you're here. If you enjoyed it, please take a minute to rate this episode and leave us a quick review. We want to know what you thought of the show and what you took from it and how it might have helped you. We read and appreciate every comment. Thanks, See you next week.